Author Topic: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!  (Read 14188 times)

Beasho

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2018, 04:51:28 AM »
One month later and $600 poorer I've got a new IWA front wing and mast and can ride the GoFoil again, woohoo! . . .

Sharksupper - How much do you weigh?

I am constantly on edge about breaking these Foils and Foil Boards. 

My first GoFoil - Showed Cracking at the Mast Head e.g. where the Tuttle is attached to the Mast.  I sent it back to Hawaii and it was 'repaired' I HOPE.

My First foil Board had the Tuttle installed 'professionally' into an L41.  It started to show a crack, and leakage so I added a carbon patch which was not initially installed.  I then got hit by A BIG WAVE and ripped out my Tuttle box.  Reinstalled that myself.  Eventually the board broke in half surfing it normal on a 10 ft Fijian wave  :o.

Purchased 2nd Mast with New Iwa and Maliko Foils.  Some slight cracking on finish of fuselage.  I have noticed tha the finish appears to be a thick coating, like eggshell but is NOT 100% carbon.  There may be a different modulus to the finish and underlying carbon that causes the finish to crack but leaves the structural material intact.

Purchased 2nd Foil Board - The Tuttle box collapsed in 7 sessions.  I reinstalled the box - It appears to be holding.

Purchased 3rd Foil Board - It appears to be holding

Ultimately we are standing on these wings.  Put the board foil down on the grass and look at how awkward it appears.  Then climb on a ladder and try to STAND on the board, careful to keep your feet in the proper position to balance between the front and rear wings.  Sounds absurd, ridiculous and unwieldy but that is what we are doing.  Water is 'soft' but all 200+ lbs of rider, wetsuit, foil board and foil are riding on a cantilevered front wing.       

« Last Edit: July 17, 2018, 04:53:32 AM by Beasho »

sharksupper

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2018, 01:28:22 PM »
Excellent you replaced those components...do you have any video of yourself foiling, sharksupper? Not sure I like that user name! Not many sharks around here in NJ where I surf, thankfully!

I just don't get it.  Something is really trying to tell me to NOT keep foiling!
I know the feeling. It's definitely scary. I tried a helmet on today that was in the surf shop that did my foil board conversion. It was WAY too small.

Yes, I was lucky in that my wings still fit the new mast.  I shot a video of flying my Lift 170 foil earlier in the year:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cm_uJapqWU4

We have lots of sharks (just great whites though) here, the main spot I foil is called "Shark Pit".   :o

sharksupper

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2018, 02:48:26 PM »
I'm 170-180lbs.

You have the most experience breaking the boards/boxes that's for sure!  ;)  I've done in three foils in less than a year so far.  We'd make a great team!   8)  We could be QA testers for foil manufacturers.  LOL

My mast had splits several inches long on both ends at the leading and trailing edges, and the fuse was just like you said, but I had huge and long cracks, all the way up to the front wing.  I rode my mast a few more times and now I have cracks going all around the fuse not just along it and it's about to go into multiple pieces.  It was like riding on jell-o, really wobbly.

Yep, the forces involved with foiling compared to how vulnerable the foil looks is pretty amazing.  The first foil I had in my hands I could not believe it was going to hold up to being in the surf at all.  It's amazing more people aren't breaking them all the time.

Sadly, I'm not sure we're going to see that much stronger foils going forward.  It's a hell of an engineering problem, and economics problem.  I suspect we won't see any improvements until warranties exceed profits.

I do have to give a big shout out to Nick at Lift foils though.  When my Lift foil broke I had told him I took it out in big waves, but he warrantied it anyway without any fuss because it had a few defects from the manufacturing process in it.  He had me a new foil in 3 days after I contacted him, amazing service, a very stand up guy for sure!  I'm considering trying out their new "200" foil if my new GoFoil fails me again.

I think everyone just needs to think of foils as a consumable item, like bake pads on cars.  They're going to break, it's just a matter of time.  That means best to get something with cheap replaceable parts!


One month later and $600 poorer I've got a new IWA front wing and mast and can ride the GoFoil again, woohoo! . . .

Sharksupper - How much do you weigh? 

I am constantly on edge about breaking these Foils and Foil Boards. 

My first GoFoil - Showed Cracking at the Mast Head e.g. where the Tuttle is attached to the Mast.  I sent it back to Hawaii and it was 'repaired' I HOPE.

My First foil Board had the Tuttle installed 'professionally' into an L41.  It started to show a crack, and leakage so I added a carbon patch which was not initially installed.  I then got hit by A BIG WAVE and ripped out my Tuttle box.  Reinstalled that myself.  Eventually the board broke in half surfing it normal on a 10 ft Fijian wave  :o.

Purchased 2nd Mast with New Iwa and Maliko Foils.  Some slight cracking on finish of fuselage.  I have noticed tha the finish appears to be a thick coating, like eggshell but is NOT 100% carbon.  There may be a different modulus to the finish and underlying carbon that causes the finish to crack but leaves the structural material intact.

Purchased 2nd Foil Board - The Tuttle box collapsed in 7 sessions.  I reinstalled the box - It appears to be holding.

Purchased 3rd Foil Board - It appears to be holding

Ultimately we are standing on these wings.  Put the board foil down on the grass and look at how awkward it appears.  Then climb on a ladder and try to STAND on the board, careful to keep your feet in the proper position to balance between the front and rear wings.  Sounds absurd, ridiculous and unwieldy but that is what we are doing.  Water is 'soft' but all 200+ lbs of rider, wetsuit, foil board and foil are riding on a cantilevered front wing.     

surfcowboy

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2018, 08:06:32 PM »
Beasho, I could feel where my foil was going to break and now am working on beefing that up (slowly).

But the dry land test wouldn't be a fair test with a curved wing as you'd put insane stress on the wing tips whereas on water it's even pressure distributed over the whole lower surface.

That said, shark, those tips cracking do seem like they'd be from pressure on the tips, not hitting something. Strange that they couldn't determine that you didn't hit anything from inspection. It's clear where my wing hit my mast as it left a mark for sure. I guess you could hit a sandbar or something and not get a real mark but I don't know.

I do feel better about breaking stuff now and I'm glad I get to beef mine up. (My wing will definitely go next.)

I'm sure if this stays popular we will all figure out the stresses and compensate but I do think it's the Wild West right now.

sharksupper

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2018, 09:36:40 PM »
I didn't feel a thing and had no indication the board hit anything.  The wing was brand new, zero marks, dents, or scratches, same with the mast after the incident.  It was the wings 3rd time on the water.  I suppose hitting a large fish or sea mammal could do damage without leaving a mark, but I sure didn't see any that day.  Just a fluke I guess.  It was deep water, and no sand scratches on anything.  I did feel that tug on my calf, so maybe the leash wrapped around a wing and tugged on it just right, I don't know.  There was also no damage to any of my other components.  No bent screws, no torn out boxes, my homemade Tuttle to track adapter is still perfect.  Then again, the wing is the weakest part of the setup and sure to be the first thing to go...  I'm definitely going the Naish XL route once those are here, much cheaper and easier to replace, and I hear they are good about warranty stuff too.  I really like the Lift foils too, 4lbs lighter than my GoFoil!  But the wings and fuse are one piece, so expensive to replace if broken ($800)… but those wings are so dang efficient, I miss them.

sharksupper

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2018, 09:50:55 PM »
I guess pics would help...

Dwight (DW)

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2018, 03:14:56 AM »
Anybody riding Cloud 9?

I just bought one. One session on it. Crazy light. Prone boards float sideways.

I noticed a few GoFoil riders switching to Cloud 9 on instagram, so it peaked my interest.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 03:23:57 AM by Dwight (DW) »

SUPeter

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2018, 07:13:20 AM »
Crazy pictures of wing breakage.  So sorry.  Id be pissed!  I'd say that this is unacceptable in a product that costs as much as it does.  Yes they have devised a workable shape but have yet to devise a workable construction method.  These wings undergo extreme forces , far more than the weight of the rider and board, especially when encountering large breaking waves as well as objects.  In an effort to get ahead of the curve and pump out and sell as many of these as they possibly can, they sacrifice careful planning and testing.  We are the testers!  While their warranties may honor such occurrences,  this will continue to happen.  Yes, it takes more time to build a wing strong enough to handle this environment but it needn't take more money.  ( Yeah, I know, time is money). I can and have made  stronger wings for far less money( $50 or less) and about the same weight.  E squared method- Utilizes both an Endoskeleton and an Exoskeleton.  Its time they consult the engineers and start creating products that we will be able to play with for years and not months.  Yes, they will at first sell less product, but the pay off in the long run will be noticeably better.  I plan on passing my foils down to my kids and maybe even grand kids.  That's just the way we Mainers do things.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 07:17:13 AM by SUPeter »

norcom

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2018, 07:23:34 AM »
Really sucks that you had to pay for a warranty replacement! I think my cracks developed after the one and only time I windsurfed the Maliko in flat water. With others reporting similar issues I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before it goes. And that's the only time I used it that I wasn't kiting the Iwa on a 4'6 board in light wind. Funny enough I just picked up a used Kai set because I really do like the damn thing. Just wish I could stop the crazy humming, holly $h1+ it's loud! In the end it'll be between reliability and price for me. This is just too much money to keep dumping for a little better performance.

How do you like the Naish in comparison to the GoFoil wings? I've been looking at the Chinese Naish clone but went with the used Kai set instead. My knockoff Takuma has served me well for kiting but trying it after I spent a few sessions on the Iwa and now one on the Kai, it just doesn't seem to have the same surf-glide feeling.

Bean

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2018, 07:53:19 AM »
I didn't feel a thing and had no indication the board hit anything.  The wing was brand new, zero marks, dents, or scratches, same with the mast after the incident. 

SS, I certainly can't tell from pics, but wonder if the wing might have delaminated first.

PonoBill

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2018, 09:10:52 AM »
Wow, you guys are clearly putting more active stress on your stuff than I am. I'm 235# and terribly hard on equipment. My M200 looked like it had been tossed into a chipper--I've hit it on rocks dozens of times. I finally had to do a repair to the trailing edge when I missed with the soft part of a hammer and hit it with the handle. Crap. Sixty years of pounding things and I do that? So now it's been sanded and painted. Other than that my GoFoil has been holding up very well.

But it's clear to me that the engineering of foils needs to be rethought unless a $1400 product is considered disposable.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

norcom

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #26 on: July 18, 2018, 09:17:47 AM »
Wow, you guys are clearly putting more active stress on your stuff than I am. I'm 235# and terribly hard on equipment. My M200 looked like it had been tossed into a chipper--I've hit it on rocks dozens of times. I finally had to do a repair to the trailing edge when I missed with the soft part of a hammer and hit it with the handle. Crap. Sixty years of pounding things and I do that? So now it's been sanded and painted. Other than that my GoFoil has been holding up very well.

But it's clear to me that the engineering of foils needs to be rethought unless a $1400 product is considered disposable.

Do you have the new version without the Starboard logo on the mast or the old one that has it? The one I have with the Starboard logo seems to have a bit of a different finish to it. Though it could have been just the lighting. Just wondering if anything may have changed.

sharksupper

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #27 on: July 18, 2018, 09:22:58 AM »
Really sucks that you had to pay for a warranty replacement! I think my cracks developed after the one and only time I windsurfed the Maliko in flat water. With others reporting similar issues I'm guessing it's only a matter of time before it goes. And that's the only time I used it that I wasn't kiting the Iwa on a 4'6 board in light wind. Funny enough I just picked up a used Kai set because I really do like the damn thing. Just wish I could stop the crazy humming, holly $h1+ it's loud! In the end it'll be between reliability and price for me. This is just too much money to keep dumping for a little better performance.

How do you like the Naish in comparison to the GoFoil wings? I've been looking at the Chinese Naish clone but went with the used Kai set instead. My knockoff Takuma has served me well for kiting but trying it after I spent a few sessions on the Iwa and now one on the Kai, it just doesn't seem to have the same surf-glide feeling.

I only have a few sessions on the Naish and still tuning the decalage (angle of the rear stabilizer), but it seems pretty nice.  It's a smaller wing (I have the large), about the same size as the Kai.  What I'm waiting for is the new XL wings which are due out this month.  The XL's should be about the size of the GoFoil IWA.

sharksupper

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #28 on: July 18, 2018, 09:24:35 AM »
I didn't feel a thing and had no indication the board hit anything.  The wing was brand new, zero marks, dents, or scratches, same with the mast after the incident. 

SS, I certainly can't tell from pics, but wonder if the wing might have delaminated first.

Yea, I don't know.  When you look at the damage you can see it was just one or two plys of carbon that let go off the wing, the rest of the thick part that cracked was just lightweight filler material.  It looks and feels so beefy, but after seeing it break I'm not as confident it actually is.

sharksupper

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Re: Seriously thinking about quitting this sport!
« Reply #29 on: July 18, 2018, 09:27:20 AM »
Wow, you guys are clearly putting more active stress on your stuff than I am. I'm 235# and terribly hard on equipment. My M200 looked like it had been tossed into a chipper--I've hit it on rocks dozens of times. I finally had to do a repair to the trailing edge when I missed with the soft part of a hammer and hit it with the handle. Crap. Sixty years of pounding things and I do that? So now it's been sanded and painted. Other than that my GoFoil has been holding up very well.

But it's clear to me that the engineering of foils needs to be rethought unless a $1400 product is considered disposable.

LOL, man I was thinking about that happening as I was whaling on mine a couple of times to get the wings off.  Maybe I should pad my handles with something!  I have the triple set so more like $2500 disposable.   ;)

 


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