Sharing Strategies from other Sports

[SaMoSUP]

Now we're talking pdx. The distance paddling crew I go out with there are more women than men. The only drawback is that most of these women do not like dealing with a 14' board. They're mostly on 12'6 boards. Size does matter but the other way around 

[photofr]

Im not sure what your point was there, photofr, but ...

My point was:
How funny that you are assuming that I do not venture in the Ocean on a SUP!
(So I placed a few GPS screenshots - just above - on my dugout boards)

Also interesting and kind of strange that you stated, "Let the rest of us hang out and have a good time..."
(What makes you even think that I do not have a good time... I mean, does my GPS screenshot remotely look like I am NOT HAVING FUN?)

You also insinuated that I couldn't go anywhere on my dugout board(s).
(I simply beg to differ: paddling 10km offshore was merely a routine for me)

[Area 10]

Photofr- I didn't say any of those things that you are saying I did.

Maybe it's a "lost in translation" thing.

[ukgm]

...
But perhaps it is inevitable with our sport that as we move towards the Olympics, we will end up with competitors who in age and physique resemble gymnasts.
...

Might be better than competitors that look like you or UKGM. No?


</duck>

1) He's a training god who probably has muscles even on his testicles.

2) But you may have missed the jist of my intent here. If someone like me can even approach a decent standard - even in local races (and a coupla years ago, a couple of times I beat a load of guys who were literally less than half my age by substantial margins) then something is probably wrong. The kids SHOULD be kicking my ass. And with the right training and equipment (not boards made for middle-aged men) they will.

1) I only train to continue the fruitless war between me and gravity. In the end, it just brings you down........ 

2) I agree with you. Me and a load of the regulars always talk about this. At the last two big races in the UK, 75% of the top 10 was still made up of those who were 40+. Sure, most of those are technically skilled with 5+ years in the sport but in reality, its still a ridiculous situation to be for a competitive sport.

[Area 10]

Btw - excellent point, pdxmike.

Many of the top women paddle in a different way than men. They kinda "ripple" their body, especially their torso, in a much more exaggerated way than men do, and thereby turn the stroke into more of a lower body exercise than an upper body one. Annabel Anderson commented that SUP was more a lower body exercise than an upper body one. Boys tend to do the "ripple stroke" too, but as they age seem to develop a stiffer stroke and lose that flexibility. But maybe the future will be the super-narrow boards and the "female" paddling style - whether you are a man or a woman. It's pretty incredible how close the top teenage girls are to the top adult males, especially in certain formats of race. If they had boards made specifically for them then the gap could be even closer. And pretty much *all* of the paddle technique coaching is led by men, and so the technique currently taught is led by what men are designed for (and is mostly based on the stroke men use when seated in an outrigger canoe, which may be very different from what is ideal if you are standing up). Perhaps when some of the top paddle coaches are women they will encourage a different way of paddling that will play to the strengths of the female body instead, and take the sport, and women's participation in it, to new heights.

[ukgm]

ukgm dropped down from a 26 Maliko to a 24.5 All Star and noticed substantial gains in speed.  He intends to drop down further next year.  That is not unusual and is expected based on what other racers are doing.  He evolved and improved his balance year over year. 

Its really just an effect you see that I call 'technological coercion'. I've been forced into a position whereby I currently have a board I actually really like to race on and paddle but I need to move on as my peers are still two inches narrower than I am. If you take the likes of Kai and Connor into account, natural selection is working against me but that's the same in any sport you're not suitable for. It's just natural selection and I know that's not me as the replacement race board I can consider for next year is probably one or two at best. I compensate (for now) in that I have a regimented training regime in any given week (although my stroke is still improving year on year). If most of the guys I paddle against actually trained properly, I'd be further behind with a gap best measured with a sundial.

[Area 10]

ukgm - it sounds like you are about to reach the point where you go so narrow that you start going slower in real world situations. As Travis's latest video says, the best board for you isn't the narrowest board you can use, it's the narrowest board you can be comfortable on. The best elite guys aren't fast because they use super-narrow boards, they use super-narrow boards because to them they don't seem at all tippy.

[ukgm]

ukgm - it sounds like you are about to reach the point where you go so narrow that you start going slower in real world situations. As Travis's latest video says, the best board for you isn't the narrowest board you can use, it's the narrowest board you can be comfortable on. The best elite guys aren't fast because they use super-narrow boards, they use super-narrow boards because to them they don't seem at all tippy.

I completely agree. I'll be trialling the Allstar 23.5 at some point in the future but on volume alone and what I know already, that's likely to be my absolute limit. I think even a 23 is a step too far for me.

[warmuth]

  I went to a 23 for a bit but abandoned it after a few months. It really took any enjoyment out of paddling. I only ever paddled it because I needed to, not because I wanted to. If I were competing for wins I'd probably have stuck with it but there's no board I'll be ever be able to average 6mph on.

[photofr]

Let's talk numbers...

Here's my scaling system:
Stability 2.0 = stability of a current 21.5" board
Stability 3.0 = stability of a current 23" board
Stability 5.0 = stability of a current 25" board
Stability 7.0 = stability of most 27" boards

MY GOAL?
I wanted to point out that a future 23" board could have the stability of 6 (based on the above scale)

HOW?
Strategies from other sports.

WHAT HAPPENED?
Sadly, very few can imagine that a future 23" could be more stable than their current board.

WHY?
Perhaps because people are just humans; stuck in their ways, always imagining themselves as the only Ocean Paddlers in the World.

Pointless -

[yugi]

I reckon it has to stay fun and practical.

For my purposes, storage limitations and transport (multiple boards on a car) I find dugouts neither. But I'm watching with interest to see where they go.

I find the wide open back of this years Fanatic Strike interesting. Like a modern sailboat. Could be very stable with that parallel outline. Meaning on could go narrower.



Since water would so rapidly flush out the back I don't see the point of such high sidewalls.

[Area 10]

  I went to a 23 for a bit but abandoned it after a few months. It really took any enjoyment out of paddling. I only ever paddled it because I needed to, not because I wanted to. If I were competing for wins I'd probably have stuck with it but there's no board I'll be ever be able to average 6mph on.

I could say exactly the same thing!

[ukgm]

I reckon it has to stay fun and practical.

For my purposes, storage limitations and transport (multiple boards on a car) I find dugouts neither. But I'm watching with interest to see where they go.

I find the wide open back of this years Fanatic Strike interesting. Like a modern sailboat. Could be very stable with that parallel outline. Meaning on could go narrower.



Since water would so rapidly flush out the back I don't see the point of such high sidewalls.

I've been keeping a keen eye on this one via some links I have to that company. Nobody is saying much about it but I suspect the volume will be too low for me. It looks great.

[ukgm]

Let's talk numbers...

Here's my scaling system:
Stability 2.0 = stability of a current 21.5" board
Stability 3.0 = stability of a current 23" board
Stability 5.0 = stability of a current 25" board
Stability 7.0 = stability of most 27" boards

MY GOAL?
I wanted to point out that a future 23" board could have the stability of 6 (based on the above scale)

HOW?
Strategies from other sports.

WHAT HAPPENED?
Sadly, very few can imagine that a future 23" could be more stable than their current board.

WHY?
Perhaps because people are just humans; stuck in their ways, always imagining themselves as the only Ocean Paddlers in the World.

Pointless -

I don't know if you've ever been employed as a product designer but I can tell you that producing a marketable sports product is a complex thing that goes beyond just the criteria of designing whats fastest.

[Area 10]

Let's talk numbers...

Here's my scaling system:
Stability 2.0 = stability of a current 21.5" board
Stability 3.0 = stability of a current 23" board
Stability 5.0 = stability of a current 25" board
Stability 7.0 = stability of most 27" boards

MY GOAL?
I wanted to point out that a future 23" board could have the stability of 6 (based on the above scale)

HOW?
Strategies from other sports.

WHAT HAPPENED?
Sadly, very few can imagine that a future 23" could be more stable than their current board.

WHY?
Perhaps because people are just humans; stuck in their ways, always imagining themselves as the only Ocean Paddlers in the World.

Pointless -

Photofr- put on a backpack with 30kg of weight in it and then get in a 23" wide 14ft dugout. You might get some sense of the problem that heavier people are dealing with. Your experiences are not ours because you are off-the-scale light for an adult male. It's not because we are stupid or narrow-minded or inexperienced. It is because we have tried what you are suggesting and the results FOR US were not good. But I'm sure that we are all pleased that you enjoy these very specialist boards, and indeed could go far narrower than is currently available. In this respect you are very lucky. Now, please stop lecturing us - and maybe listen a little more carefully to our experiences and try to understand them as we have listened to yours and tried to understand them.