Author Topic: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?  (Read 30025 times)

Luc Benac

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2018, 03:39:09 PM »
Sunday morning was blowing so hard hey had trouble opening lifts, so I headed back South, stopped at Porteau, but no intrepid downwinders to be found...

I almost went with a couple of friends, but they could not make up their mind in the morning so it was aborted....it was blowing for sure. How were the bumps looking from the shore?
Often winter storms stop at Pam rocks (pass Porteau and Anvil island in front of it). This time by 11:00 it looks like the storm came all the way to Squamish where it can get iffy on the sand bars in front of the river mouth.
I should receive my SupSkin next week so I can paddle warmly even when bailing out during a DW.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 03:53:38 PM by Luc Benac »
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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2018, 03:47:31 PM »
Eagle, I was at Whistler over the weekend. Sunday morning was blowing so hard hey had trouble opening lifts, so I headed back South, stopped at Porteau, but no intrepid downwinders to be found...
Haha!  That was a big storm that went through.  We were in 60 cm of fresh at Cypress.  Yesterday was on another 15 cm of pow.  Even tho I love skiing on my 122 fatties -> it compares like garbage to my powder SBs.  For me SB is like DW SUP but at full planing speeds all the time.  Full on surf city.  Mega fun!  Gravity on steep blacks kinda does that.

But did a couple winter DW runs years ago from Britannia back to Porteau.  Found the wind direction did not cooperate well.  If you did not always steer hard left you would get blown out to sea.  Not the most pleasant idea in freezing temps.  Miss Porteau and say sayonara.  ;D
Fast is FUN!   8)
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Dusk Patrol

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2018, 03:57:49 PM »
I really don't know what powder is... but I can ski on ice : ) Mad PNW skills ... ha! 

Luc there were rollers coming into shore at Porteau. From what it looked like they were coming from SW, heading NE, so tending to drive things into the shore, but at an angle. It could have been different out in the middle of the sound. From up on the road (driving) you could tell it was windy ... whitecaps...
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 04:05:29 PM by Dusk Patrol »
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Luc Benac

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2018, 04:20:26 PM »
I really don't know what powder is... but I can ski on ice : ) Mad PNW skills ... ha! 

Luc there were rollers coming into shore at Porteau. From what it looked like they were coming from SW, heading NE, so tending to drive things into the shore, but at an angle. It could have been different out in the middle of the sound. From up on the road (driving) you could tell it was windy ... whitecaps...

Thanks, sorry we missed it.
Usually the wind direction straighten a little bit past Britannia so if you manage to get out there at Porteau you are in a better shape to make it to Squamish. Even for Britannia it is often better as you stay away from the cliff and the churny water there. (of course it does not always work that way) That often mean a less than enjoyable paddle quartering teh wind in front of Porteau often on your knees until you are 1km or more out before angling and taking the fun. In a storm the usual might be out of the window...
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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2018, 06:39:42 PM »
This was the historical data at Pam.  The storm was a solid inflow.  A typical winter outflow like the 14th goes 40 deg @10am 55 km/h.  Optimally to make Porteau for an outflow 0 deg is preferred.  But since outflow winds shift quite a bit more than in the summer.  DW runs can be risky in the cold of winter.

Generally this is the preferred line into Squamish in the summer.  Get to the other side and get blasted from the left over the cliffs.  When the wind is going max you can plane from bump to bump to bump.  The reason is fetch is short and the angle allows you to take waves at the perfect planing angle.  Most fun ever for me was on the Bullet V2.  Barely even needed to paddle to get bumps ahead.

For Britannia just head into the breeze at a 40 deg angle for about a mile.  Then turn DW and the line is about perfect.  No backwash from the cliff and pushes you right in.  If you do not do that you constantly have to go left to avoid being washed against the rocks.
Fast is FUN!   8)
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PT Woody

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2018, 02:48:16 PM »
Re the Bayonet 14, according to SIC website: "This board does not have F.A.S.T. for 2018. As many downwind races in the 14.0 class are fixed-fin, we opted to leave F.A.S.T. off to make sure the board is as light as possible."

That seems a bit of a shame to me especially as the Bullet 14 and even the FX 14 and 12'6" have F.A.S.T. I think the fact that SIC has been willing to add steering in spite of racing regulations has been a huge bonus for those of us who enjoy down winding without any desire to go racing. In my part of the world, racing is a dying form of the sport whereas non race down winding is increasing exponentially.

I hope SIC (and others) reconsider steering for 2019 for the Bayonet 14.

yugi

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #21 on: February 01, 2018, 09:54:08 AM »
^ two things:

1. The Bullets have steering. So take one of those. And as you point out, steering is bound to have more success in the non allout race series.

2. Do you know a lot of people who find steering useful on their 14 or 12'6?

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2018, 06:24:50 PM »
^ I only know one person with steering on a 14' Bullet and he swears by it. From my point of view, I feel once you start using steering for downwinding, I find it very hard to go back to the old way. In fact the only board that I enjoy downwinding without steering is a 12' because it feels like surfing.

VTLAKESUP

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #23 on: June 12, 2018, 11:57:02 AM »
Hey, just reading this now as I am just getting some experience on my new SIC Bayonet 14' with a Dave Kalama Fin.  I had a Bullet V1 14 with a stock fin.  In terms of experience, I had well over 100 miles of big lake down-winding on the Bullet V1.  A couple of observations on the Bayonet:

Stability:  Almost the same as the Bullet V1 despite being 26" wide vs. 27.25".  While the Bayonet definitely feels a little bit looser underfoot... It feels tippy, but you get way more control on the rails and I don't feel like I am going to fall.  It sits noticeably higher on the water than the Bullet.  The difference in weight is also a factor there, where the Bullet V1 felt almost like a log.

Side-Chop:  One of the big concerns I had on the Bayonet is how much higher it sits on the water and it definitely does.  I weigh 185lbs and my feet rarely get wet!  All of that exposed rail should cause a lot of side-chop and issues in cross-wind, but it is actually the opposite.  I just did a 14 miler with one 4 mile section of ~20 mph side wind and 2-3 ft side chop and the board actually tracked better than the bullet!  I theorize that because the rails are so high along the entire length of board, there is less tendency for the nose to bear the brunt of the cross-wind and pull those board off course.  Whereas I had a hard time keeping the Bullet on course with anything approaching 20mph of cross wind, the Bayonet seems to take the wind and waves and stay on course without as much impact on the nose.  I was still one-side paddling, but I never felt like I needed to kneel.

Speed:  This board is lighter and much faster than the V1 in smaller waves, flat water or up-winding - I would bet that it is faster than the Bullet in nuking downwind, but I haven't had the right day yet.  I was able to squeeze some really long glides out of lake waves <1.5 ft.  In the flats and upwind, the Bullet just feels like a wet log compared to the Bayonet, albeit a more stable one.  The Bayonet also needs much less footwork to keep the nose out of the water, which I suspect is because the rocker line looks more consistent across the entire length of the board.  A half step forward and your in the wave, half step back and your planing.  Plus with a fatter, more rockered tail and you get more "push" from small bumps.

Overall Read:  For a DW specific ride, the Bayonet is better than my bullet in almost every way and frankly, I don't see a place for the Bullet going forward in my quiver.  Despite a narrower width and carbon, the Bayonet is still quite a bit slower in flats or upwind than the RS 23 or AllStar 24.5.  I time trialed both on flat water starts and they won easily, but on bigger downwind waves the Bayonet will be faster much more fun.

Hope that helps
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2018 SIC Bayonet 14 X 26"
2016 SIC Bullet V1 14 X 27.25"

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #24 on: June 12, 2018, 12:40:04 PM »
Interesting review.  Never tried the TWC Bullet -> only the much lighter weight carbon versions.  Both the fixed and rudder versions. 

Found they jumped onto a plane instantly.  Much faster than the stickier V2.  But no doubt Mark designed another fantastic board in the Bayonet.  Was pushing for a narrower V2 years ago as that board is very stable for its width.
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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2018, 12:50:45 PM »
Yes, thanks VT. It's helpful to see the similar themes that show up in yours, Burchas' and Yang's reviews. About its stability, (and to Eagle's comment about a narrower V2) I have a 26" RS, which is VERY stable. So I was curious if is sister board, the Bayonet, was equally as relatively stable. I'm getting the sense that it's not.
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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2018, 04:19:05 AM »
clearly one of you needs my brand new bullet v2--see classifieds to steal this board
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burchas

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #27 on: June 14, 2018, 11:16:52 PM »
Yes, thanks VT. It's helpful to see the similar themes that show up in yours, Burchas' and Yang's reviews. About its stability, (and to Eagle's comment about a narrower V2) I have a 26" RS, which is VERY stable. So I was curious if is sister board, the Bayonet, was equally as relatively stable. I'm getting the sense that it's not.

I'll have to revise my review now that I actually got to ride the production Bayonet.
The prototype I tested in Maui is NOT the same board.
Its is clear Mark took the input from riders of all levels who tested the prototypes and really refined the design. I'm 100% with VTLAKESUP on his review.

We had surprisingly good conditions in Hood River today and we took a Bayonet 14, a Maliko 26 and an SIC RS 23. I switched board few times especially between the Bayonet and the Maliko (an absolute favorite of mine) to really appreciate the sensation each board delivers as these boards are as far apart as can be.

I did over finned the Bayonet with my trusted ocean downwind fin just to be
on the safe side as I was still reliving the trauma of my last  Maliko run on the
Bayonet prototype. Obviously that took some of the edge from the board as
expected and confirmed by Joel Yang who's very familiar with the board.

As much as I liked the control and ease of handling of the Maliko, I kept going
for the Bayonet, I was saving so much energy with this board as it is so much easier to get into and keep on the bump compared to the Maliko.

The nose works great as well, very different from the V2, didn't pearl it not
even once, it popped up every time.

Secondary stability is good and along with the high rails it really allowed me
to dig in the rail an maneuver without feeling like broaching or catching a rail
which was a lot more common on the Bullet.

Yesterday I was riding the Infinity Downtown 27. Looking at the downtown
and Bayonet side by side, I couldn't help by noticing how much the downtown borrows from the bayonet, very similar looking boards but IMO the Bayonet is on a different level, easier to get into the bumps and much easier to maneuver when you hit side wind.

Tomorrow I'll try it with a much looser fin to really unleash the beast.
Bottom line, the entire run, the thought of the Bullet never crossed my mind.

As a side note, I still say there is no way in hell this board is 295 Liters.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 11:24:29 PM by burchas »
in progress...

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2018, 12:57:43 AM »
Yes, thanks VT. It's helpful to see the similar themes that show up in yours, Burchas' and Yang's reviews. About its stability, (and to Eagle's comment about a narrower V2) I have a 26" RS, which is VERY stable. So I was curious if is sister board, the Bayonet, was equally as relatively stable. I'm getting the sense that it's not.

I'll have to revise my review now that I actually got to ride the production Bayonet.
The prototype I tested in Maui is NOT the same board.
Its is clear Mark took the input from riders of all levels who tested the prototypes and really refined the design. I'm 100% with VTLAKESUP on his review.

We had surprisingly good conditions in Hood River today and we took a Bayonet 14, a Maliko 26 and an SIC RS 23. I switched board few times especially between the Bayonet and the Maliko (an absolute favorite of mine) to really appreciate the sensation each board delivers as these boards are as far apart as can be.

I did over finned the Bayonet with my trusted ocean downwind fin just to be
on the safe side as I was still reliving the trauma of my last  Maliko run on the
Bayonet prototype. Obviously that took some of the edge from the board as
expected and confirmed by Joel Yang who's very familiar with the board.

As much as I liked the control and ease of handling of the Maliko, I kept going
for the Bayonet, I was saving so much energy with this board as it is so much easier to get into and keep on the bump compared to the Maliko.

The nose works great as well, very different from the V2, didn't pearl it not
even once, it popped up every time.

Secondary stability is good and along with the high rails it really allowed me
to dig in the rail an maneuver without feeling like broaching or catching a rail
which was a lot more common on the Bullet.

Yesterday I was riding the Infinity Downtown 27. Looking at the downtown
and Bayonet side by side, I couldn't help by noticing how much the downtown borrows from the bayonet, very similar looking boards but IMO the Bayonet is on a different level, easier to get into the bumps and much easier to maneuver when you hit side wind.

Tomorrow I'll try it with a much looser fin to really unleash the beast.
Bottom line, the entire run, the thought of the Bullet never crossed my mind.

As a side note, I still say there is no way in hell this board is 295 Liters.

Interesting review Burchas. The Bayonet looks very nice. I would love to see some videos.

Dusk Patrol

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Re: SIC Bayonet shape vs. Bullets?
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2018, 07:19:01 AM »
Thanks Burchas... and since you just rode the Downtown 27",  can you comment more on it?
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