Author Topic: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.  (Read 5101 times)

FloridaWindSUP

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Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« on: January 17, 2018, 07:18:50 PM »
I put up a good fight and stayed within shouting distance, but my buddy who I used to beat on sup beat me with his OC1 today on our downwinder. I was using a 14x27.25 Fanatic Falcon and the conditions were 15 increasing to 20 knots, wind ~10 degrees off straight downwind, knee to waist high bumps. My average speed was 11.1 kph, his 11.2 kph, over ~9 km. I fell twice and he didn't fall. A week ago I raced my 14x23 Riviera RP vs his OC1 in flatwater and beat him by a small margin 9.16 kph to 9.07 kph. For now we're interestingly well-matched for training together but I imagine he'll pull away as he gets the OC1 more dialed.

Is there any kind of rule of thumb for the relative speeds of 14' sup, unlimited sup, oc1, and surfski in downwinders, assuming a paddler of equal, pretty good ability in each? Like, surfski is the fastest, oc1 is X% slower, sup is XX% slower, etc? If not for downwinders, what about flatwater?

For different length sups, the hull speed equation predictions seem to work well for figuring the speeds and handicaps, like for 12'6 (8.8 kph hull speed) vs. 14' (9.3 kph hull speed), 12'6 about 5% slower. But obviously the narrow, round-bottomed, sit-down paddlecraft have some drag-reducing advantages other than just length, so that would have to be accounted for.

Also wondering if downwind conditions reduce the % speed difference between sup and the sit-downs, or if it stays about the same, or increases, or what.
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digger71

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2018, 08:12:01 PM »
It would be interesting to understand the percentage differences, but downwind is so hard to measure in that way.  What I do know is that in the limited number of events I have seen where all three crafts compete, your list is correct.

Surfski > OC > Unlimited SUP > 14' SUP

Paddle Imua (Maliko Run) and Gorge Downwind Champs (Viento Run) are the two big downwind events that come to mind

surfcowboy

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2018, 08:47:51 PM »
Paging headmount.

Eagle

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2018, 09:05:08 PM »
Surfski > OC > Unlimited SUP > 14' SUP
Yeah sounds correcto.

Riccio and Baptiste smoked this Imua run on 14s.  But no way fair to fair any 14 should be close to an OC1 -> let alone any surf ski.  Especially on flat or into the wind.  Even little Finn was behind on a foil on this run.  ULs just ahead by a min.  Just calc and get % variances.  But will of course vary quite a bit race to race depending on conditions.

There is this guy at our club who has a V14 at 21 and he smokes on that thing.  Can be a 1/2 mile ahead and he will horizon me into a 5 kt breeze.  Those things are wicked fast weapons.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2018, 09:24:55 PM by Eagle »
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manta

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2018, 10:15:27 PM »
We have the Millers DW run here in SA. The wind blows almost every day for 6 months. The course is just shy of 12km.

The record in a surfski is 36 minutes. The record on a 14 foot SUP is 45 minutes. Both records by world class paddlers.

So yes, there is a speed difference but it is a lot the paddler. When I do it in my Ski I get beaten by SUP I'm not elite on either a SUP or in a ski.

Unofficially the foil is just as fast as the ski and with more practice will beat it....

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burchas

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2018, 07:03:36 AM »
The record in a surfski is 36 minutes. The record on a 14 foot SUP is 45 minutes. Both records by world class paddlers.

F*ck! how can you justify going out for a run with all that entails only to finish after 36 minutes, it's not even a good workout ;)
I hope you get a good system there where you can easily do triple runs?
Bunch of sh*t that doesn't mean much to most

manta

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2018, 07:11:36 AM »
Well I still super suck so it takes me an hour.

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FloridaWindSUP

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2018, 10:38:50 AM »
Ok, this is helpful. Sounds like "all else being equal" the surfski > oc1 > UL sup > 14' sup ranking holds in downwinders, but I still have lots of room for improvement on the 14' sup relative to the elite downwind paddlers. Manta- 12 km / hour seems quite fast to me! 12 km in 45 minutes on a sup would be amazing! Looking forward to the next run.
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yugi

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2018, 07:37:55 AM »
Well I still super suck so it takes me an hour.

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12 k in an hour is about 12 km/h.

This super sucking stuff isn't half bad. (florida is cooking too, probably in about 1/3 the wind)

Oh! It was a post about which gear is faster. Carry on. I'm still working on supersucking on my clunker gear.


TallDude

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2018, 10:31:31 AM »
Here are the results from the HanoHano in San Diego, CA last weekend. Click on "short course". All boats and boards do the short course. It's about 5 miles flat water with a series of long turns through Mission Bay. Long course is for OC's and Ski's only. 
Surfski's are the fastest. Mo did pretty good too.

Click on 'Results', then 'Short Course" from pull down list.

https://paddleguru.com/races/2018HanohanoHukiOceanChallenge
« Last Edit: February 03, 2018, 10:33:19 AM by TallDude »
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surf4food

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2018, 07:29:11 PM »
Here are the results from the HanoHano in San Diego, CA last weekend. Click on "short course". All boats and boards do the short course. It's about 5 miles flat water with a series of long turns through Mission Bay. Long course is for OC's and Ski's only. 
Surfski's are the fastest. Mo did pretty good too.

Click on 'Results', then 'Short Course" from pull down list.

https://paddleguru.com/races/2018HanohanoHukiOceanChallenge

Funny thing is, I live in San Diego and the Hanohano is about the only time I ever see any surfskis or OC1/OC2s.  Sometimes they can be spotted on top of cars but I rarely see them in the water, except for HanoHano. 

TallDude

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2018, 10:56:44 PM »
Here are the results from the HanoHano in San Diego, CA last weekend. Click on "short course". All boats and boards do the short course. It's about 5 miles flat water with a series of long turns through Mission Bay. Long course is for OC's and Ski's only. 
Surfski's are the fastest. Mo did pretty good too.

Click on 'Results', then 'Short Course" from pull down list.

https://paddleguru.com/races/2018HanohanoHukiOceanChallenge

Funny thing is, I live in San Diego and the Hanohano is about the only time I ever see any surfskis or OC1/OC2s.  Sometimes they can be spotted on top of cars but I rarely see them in the water, except for HanoHano.
They're out there, just a lot farther out than is visible from shore. I paddle with a bunch of them daily. They usually launch from a harbor or bay and head straight out in to open waters. 8 to 12 miles is an average morning paddle for the OC-1 and SurfSki group. I don't go as far as they do or even keep up with them, but we pass each other a few miles out.  If the surf is up and the outer reefs are breaking you'll see them come closer to shore to catch some glides, but that doesn't happen but a few times a year. Not sure where the SD group usually launches from, but I think Santa Clara Point is where the Outrigger Club is? They probably congregate there. 
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surf4food

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2018, 03:08:54 PM »
They're out there, just a lot farther out than is visible from shore. I paddle with a bunch of them daily. They usually launch from a harbor or bay and head straight out in to open waters. 8 to 12 miles is an average morning paddle for the OC-1 and SurfSki group. I don't go as far as they do or even keep up with them, but we pass each other a few miles out.  If the surf is up and the outer reefs are breaking you'll see them come closer to shore to catch some glides, but that doesn't happen but a few times a year. Not sure where the SD group usually launches from, but I think Santa Clara Point is where the Outrigger Club is? They probably congregate there.

Makes sense since that is exactly what their purpose is.   I'm just surprised I don't at least occasionally see them cruising around in Mission Bay. 

covesurfer

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2018, 04:32:31 PM »
I've not paddled ski but plenty of my paddle partners do and I'd agree with the Ski>OC1>UL>14 ranking for potential speeds. That's how races always end up as well, with some anomalies.  Interesting to me, Jeremy Riggs, who is an elite downwind paddler, can easily run away from me on his ultra narrow SIC gun on a good downwind day when I'm paddling OC1. I'm far from an elite paddler but I wouldn't call myself slow either. It's amazing how outstanding downwind paddlers like JR, Dave K, Andrea M and quite a few others, can achieve and maintain very high average speeds on UL boards going downwind. With the elite people, it isn't about the craft, it's just pure skill.

I tend to go back and forth a lot between my UL board and my OC1. Not that many people do that, seems like a lot of people are one or the other - board or boat. One person that paddles all three craft - ski, oc1, and UL SUP is Kathy S. She consistently kicks my butt when we're both on SUP, usually by at least 2 to 3 minutes on a downwind run, and, if we're both in OC1's, she does the same thing, by the same margin. When she paddles ski and I'm paddling OC1, I don't even know how much she smokes me by, but I know she's even faster in her ski than in OC1. 

To me, it feels like the OC catches bumps better than a SUP but more importantly, it is easier to maintain a higher speed and as a result, get into more stuff than you could when paddling SUP. Your top speeds might not be much higher than on an unlimited board than when paddling ski or OC, but your average speed will tend to be consistently higher so you catch more stuff and are less fatigued, setting you up for more hard efforts when you need them. The thing that stands out for me is that in really windy, big conditions, I prefer my UL board over an OC1. I love the feeling of continuous surfing that you get on a SUP, with the right conditions. And, my OC feels a lot more vulnerable to getting broken when it gets bigger, and it's a lot harder to remount if you huli than it is to get back on your SUP after a fall.

 

TallDude

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Re: Relative downwinder speeds of sup vs. OC1, surfski, etc.
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2018, 05:37:29 PM »
A lot of my old SUP friends have gone either back to, or got into for the first time OC-1's. We don't really have downwind conditions here. Mostly mixed up swell and cross wind. When the stars align, I still wouldn't call it much of a DW condition. The OC's and SSki's maintain better glide in the crossed up swell. I don't have an OC but it's in my sites. My problem is my size. Like my boards, it'll have to be a custom like the 'Pueo with the Forward Footwell'. That's what my bigger OC friends have recommended. 6'7 245# puts off the sizing charts. I do like the option to do distance in the ocean for the days it would suck on a SUP.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 05:39:04 PM by TallDude »
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