Author Topic: Chinese foils hitting the market.  (Read 4080 times)

SURFFOILS

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #15 on: October 07, 2017, 02:44:10 AM »
The current foil makers are smartly changing designs so thereís movement there, sadly buying a product is not like a service but should be.
 I went to a big sup foil evening here a few days ago and apart from the lack of drinks, food, direction or information, there was a clear pecking order of who was friends with whom.  Not that I know anything about foils to discuss.
 The other 40 people in the room were ignored. If youíre selling a product you still have to provide a service, itís called customer service. Iíve heard it here before, people were going to buy something but decided to go on holiday or spend their money elsewhere. Your competition in selling a foil isnít the other foil guys but every retailer.. Price is a big deal but customer service in its many forms brings repeat business and new contacts. Thatís the advantage local guys have.

SURFFOILS

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2017, 06:24:19 PM »

supuk

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2017, 11:35:00 PM »
You can expect to pay at least double that if you just want one however and then shipping is normally about $150 then probably some import duty so it does add up a bit. There was one I was considering but of all the cheap Chinese stuff I have had in the past it's always been a huge let down in quality and the picture often can be totally different to what you get so there is a big gamble when getting the China back door stuff. Personally I'm willing to pay a bit more for peace of mind.

I believe go foil is already dropping there prices however and there are a number of windsurf foils now the are very reasonable so it won't be long till that filters around.

headmount

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #18 on: October 10, 2017, 07:44:29 PM »
Quality would be foremost if one were to use one for downwinding.  Having a break out in the open ocean, well I don't want to even think about it.  No one has hit a turtle yet but it'll happen.  We got millions of them right on or just under the surface.  I've even hit them with my slow ass SUP DW board. 

So yeah cheap sounds great until you're swimming.

Piros

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #19 on: October 11, 2017, 04:39:01 AM »
I've purchased 6 Chinese foils from different companies and none are a direct knockoff of any brand, some come close but none use the downturned rear wing of the Go Foil or Naish. it seems strange they use front wing design similar to those but not the rear wing. From my testing, they lift and fly but lack in the pump. So that's got me guessing they are influenced in design from a western designer from kite foiling as they are so locked on high aspect ratios. Just a thought but if you are going to rip something off , why not just copy it. I personally think the Chinese are being fed designs from western punters trying to make a quick buck and all designs are being shared amongst the factories and butchered bringing out marginal foil designs IMHO.
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surfcowboy

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2017, 07:00:48 AM »
Piros, looks like there's a business in making Western tails for Chinese copies of half-assed Western foils designs. Lol

Just ship them back and forth a few more times and we'll have price parity with the name brands.

Thanks for the research, that sounds like a pretty good idea of what's going on. That is weird about them not really knocking them off well, but it also speaks to the fact that we are in the early stages of all this. Even the knock off business isn't developed.

headmount

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2017, 12:34:35 PM »
I've purchased 6 Chinese foils from different companies and none are a direct knockoff of any brand, some come close but none use the downturned rear wing of the Go Foil or Naish. it seems strange they use front wing design similar to those but not the rear wing. From my testing, they lift and fly but lack in the pump. So that's got me guessing they are influenced in design from a western designer from kite foiling as they are so locked on high aspect ratios. Just a thought but if you are going to rip something off , why not just copy it. I personally think the Chinese are being fed designs from western punters trying to make a quick buck and all designs are being shared amongst the factories and butchered bringing out marginal foil designs IMHO.

This is where the zone is really valuable when there are posts like this of actual experience.  Thanks Piros.

Piros

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #22 on: October 13, 2017, 03:33:55 AM »
This is a typical China foil flogging the market I'm talking about , good looking & good construction foil full carbon but the mast and fuselage has Aluminium inside , so about the same weight as the Naish but 3 pounds heavier than the GoFoil. Front wing design looks good but on closer inspection, the rear wing has the foiling upside down and that's what kills the pump . It's supposed to be wing tips up. I have flipped the rear wing with and will give that a try tomorrow to see how it goes, possibly might work a bit better. All questions to the factory "why is it like this" ...no answer, they really have no idea of any foil concept. This is a pic of the China foil with the Kai foil on top and the Naish beside it  , it's close but all the important things are wrong. It still works and glides with some grunt but lacks low speed foiling. Maybe more suited to a short board but not a Sup.

I have a saying in refitting boats "The poor man always pays the most" after replacing his cheap parts with genuine products. If you want to learn to foil just buy a foil you know that works. It's a hell of alot faster and safer to learn and I have the scars to prove it over the past year. I have a dozen foils in my shed and the only two I ride now on my Sup are the Naish & GoFoil. I'll keep testing and trying everything that comes out but they are my pick for now. I have track mount and tuttle mounts in all my boards for testing fair comparisons.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 04:36:30 AM by Piros »
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #23 on: October 13, 2017, 10:01:10 AM »
Piros

I saw that Chinese knock off foil at Surf Exp. There was a guy planning to import them and retail at $995.

But, the one I held in my hand felt about 7 lbs. best guess. Lighter than all the aluminum ones at the show. I wish I had taken a photo of it. I canít recall if stab was upside down.

What turned me off, was the foil being flattish with pointy leading edge. Clearly a MHL Lift knockoff, just a bigger front wing.

Anyway, thought you might find it interesting to know there is a slightly lighter version coming from somewhere in China.

2Rivers

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2017, 02:58:36 PM »
No one has hit a turtle yet but it'll happen.
There was a kiter out at Sherman Island a few years ago that took out a huge 19lb salmon on a foilboard. Afterwards was Sashimi time!
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Piros

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2017, 07:30:19 PM »
Yeah good observation Dwight , 100% Lift fuselage here is a pic of it next to my 150sq" Lift. The more I look at the Lift now the China foil has used some of the Lift foiling contorures, then made the wings larger and shaped the front wing like a Go Foil then used the design concept of the Lift on the rear but turned up the wing tips. Bit of a dogs breakfast.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2017, 07:32:00 PM by Piros »
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Dwight (DW)

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2017, 03:59:49 AM »
No one has hit a turtle yet but it'll happen.

I met a windsurf foiler a few days ago who drove two hours to foil our spot, because at his home spot, heís hit turtles twice.

Each impact broke his board. He was down to his last board when he came to our spot.

chucktheskiffie

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Re: Chinese foils hitting the market.
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2017, 08:13:02 PM »
and all designs are being shared amongst the factories and butchered bringing out marginal foil designs IMHO.