Author Topic: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint  (Read 19664 times)

FloridaWindSUP

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Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« on: May 30, 2017, 05:29:26 PM »
Apparently he went 193 km, and quit with 2 hours to spare. The board is a 14x21.5 sb sprint that was somehow modified with 2' added to the nose and to the tail and the rocker reduced. I don't think Guinness will accept it if it's not on a production board, though. Would be cool if SB would make an updated Sprint unlimited.

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Eagle

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2017, 07:49:58 PM »
Sounds like if conditions were more favorable overnight Bart would have put on a few more miles.  RN looks he will have to push a bit harder next go round to beat the new benchmark set.

"The 120.4-mile effort gives de Zwart the title after exceeding English paddler Joanne Hamilton-Vale’s record-setting attempt of 111.84 miles, which she completed in April to narrowly beat out Robert Norman’s previous record of 111.8 miles set back in February."

http://www.supthemag.com/news/bart-de-zwart-sets-24-hour-sup-distance-record/#pYMWXCG30hQIYvE0.97

"If somebody beats my record, I’ll respond accordingly and go re-break it. If nobody touches the record, I don’t see myself going and trying to break it just for fun."

http://www.supthemag.com/features/exclusive-robert-norman-setting-24-hour-distance-record/#zuLLvM3M3GfJ2j7l.97
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PonoBill

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2017, 08:29:10 PM »
It looks like a sprint unlimited. Doesn't Starboard have an 18' unlimited in their lineup this year?
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2017, 09:05:07 PM »
Seems SB dropped the Sprint UL.  As you drop to narrower widths -> efficiency and glide play huge in the equation.  Even at 23 there is a very noticeable drop in drag vs 24.5 especially upwind.  Many of the top tier are on 21.5s in somewhat moderate conditions and proving that they are plenty stable enough for them to win races.  On flat 21.5 with a dropped standing area should be fine for those ok on a 23 -> and very efficient indeed.  So far none have been available to demo test round these parts.

"Bart was paddling a modified 14x21.5 production Starboard Sprint. He added approximately 2ft to the nose and tail to make it an 18x21.5 unlimited, telling me that the main benefit wasn't so much additional speed but superior efficiency."

https://www.facebook.com/supracerr/

https://standuppaddlemag.co.uk/2015/06/10/sprint-finish-starboard-sprint-unlimited-17-5ft-review/
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ukgm

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2017, 11:41:54 PM »
It's an amazing effort. The downside is that the reliance on the board use will,mean that (even more so than the cycling hour record) that most paddlers won't have access to a board to make a competitive attempt. It makes Jo's record appear really strong as she was on a stock 14ft Naish javelin in a 24 width.

TallDude

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2017, 08:38:29 AM »
I don't think Guinness will accept it if it's not on a production board, though.

Seriously. Guinness only grants SUP world records if they are completed on a production board?
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

ukgm

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2017, 09:34:30 AM »
I don't think Guinness will accept it if it's not on a production board, though.

Seriously. Guinness only grants SUP world records if they are completed on a production board?

That's true. However, cycling has been getting away with saying things are 'available' for years retrospectively for the hour record...... by giving them long lead times and making them prohibitively expensive to deter buyers

heyheysup

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2017, 02:23:23 PM »
Joanne Hamilton - vale 's record is incredible. The one before by Norman and this last one by de Zwart have been made on 18 feet boards, and she made it on a stock 14. Little buzz though, I have heard more about the other two...

JEG

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2017, 05:05:57 PM »
I say thumbs up to those 24hr record paddlers and that's a looooong time to be on a sup board.

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2017, 08:19:19 AM »
Bart shows his board and gives insightful comments about endurance racing in the linked vid.  Long efficient glide and no wake drag are the benefits of the design with good stability for a 21.5 wide.  He indicated it took 5 days to design and build the 18 and that it may become a production board.  As well talks about Jo using the 18 on her next 24 hr attempt.  He thinks around 210 km is the max possible.

The underbody desgn looks round at the narrow front and turns into a triple concave with chamfered edges for stability out back.  Pretty sleek and slippery.

http://www.supracer.com/2017-thonon-euro-tour-sup-race-live-stream/
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PonoBill

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2017, 08:48:29 AM »
He's probably right, or at least in the ballpark. That's a 5.4 MPH average. I'll do a more careful calculation when I have time--it's an interesting question, but quick and dirty, that's about 150 watts for an 18-foot board assuming a combined weight of 180 pounds. 150 watts for 24 hours? Got to be close to a maximum. Lots of mixed units there, but I think I'm in the same ballpark. Bart is undoubtedly drawing on his vast experience, I'm dicking around with numbers. As I understand it, Tour de France riders expend about 250 watts for four hours, so there's more power theoretically available for shorter durations, but I don't know what they could do for 24 hours.

And by the way, there you have it--future production board, Guinness satisfied, but don't expect to see one at a surf shop near you.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 08:55:54 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2017, 09:47:25 AM »
Bart shows his board and gives insightful comments about endurance racing in the linked vid.  Long efficient glide and no wake drag are the benefits of the design with good stability for a 21.5 wide.  He indicated it took 5 days to design and build the 18 and that it may become a production board.  As well talks about Jo using the 18 on her next 24 hr attempt.  He thinks around 210 km is the max possible.

The underbody desgn looks round at the narrow front and turns into a triple concave with chamfered edges for stability out back.  Pretty sleek and slippery.

http://www.supracer.com/2017-thonon-euro-tour-sup-race-live-stream/
This is the same bottom design from a Richmond unlimited from 7 years ago. Right after that, Craig quit making stand up boards. He concluded that this design was the most stable and allow him to design narrower stand up boards. He told me that he and Brian Szymanski had talked about the flat bevel (chamfer) at the rail and triple chine bottom, and Brian was doing something similar back then as well. You'll see it in the Lahui Kai's. Thomas Maximus Shahinian  21' x 23" unlimited has that bottom. That was the last SUP that Craig made. He still does occasionally makes prone stock and unlimited boards.
I guess that's the creature of design. They end up going full circle at some point.
It's not overhead to me!
8'8" L-41 ST and a whole pile of boards I rarely use.

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2017, 01:33:44 PM »
"He concluded that this design was the most stable and allow him to design narrower stand up boards. He told me that he and Brian Szymanski had talked about the flat bevel (chamfer) at the rail and triple chine bottom, and Brian was doing something similar back then as well."

Interesting that Craig and Brian were quite ahead of their time to arrive at that conclusion way back then.  No doubt Bart could have gone with the old 17.5x23 -> but he wanted to use that modified 21.5 Sprint for the record.  My preference is to go narrower with edges vs fatter and rounded ie. AS23 vs Race25.  The pic below shows the tail underbody of the discontinued 17.5x23.  Before convex to now concave.
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PonoBill

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2017, 07:33:27 PM »
Chines make huge sense in a flatwater paddleboard. Directional stability with minimal fin drag. Easy to go too far and wind up with more surface area, but a little crease on the edge and you have it. This is all ancient history, by the way. There isn't a thing in any of this that wasn't understood 150 years ago when it was commercially important.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

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Re: Bart de Zwart 24 hr record on 18x21.5 SB Sprint
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2017, 08:46:08 PM »
Seems SB has not reached the point where there is too much surface area with the design.  The narrow width and longitudinal edges compensate more than the extra drag.  Diff vs others is that SB racers win and stand on podiums week after week -> so have effectively marketed that design to make it part of their brand.  The design def does work if you can get your CNS to adapt to tippy tippy.

http://www.supracer.com/2017-euro-tour-thonon-les-bains-results/
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