Author Topic: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race  (Read 259373 times)

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #795 on: March 11, 2019, 01:11:28 AM »
...In the videos of the Nelo boards being paddled the thing that struck me was how much side-to-side (aka roll) micro-movements there were...

The thing that struck me was how 2 of their team riders could not handle the board on pure flat water losing balance on simple wakes and on
simple buoy turn.

Now lets put them in open water with some good tasty side chop, it would make a good instructional video on how to fall from
a dugout without cracking your shin because if I'm to judge by this video, they had a lot of practice.

I suspect the GT is going to eventually eclipse the signature. Particularly with the narrower widths of the GT on the way.

IMO it would have made much more sense if they'd introduced the GT first. It looks a lot more versatile than the signature and much more suitable
for all around racing. First impressions are crucial and a tippy board like the signature doesn't make for a good first impression unless you launched
it on the 11 cities with Bruno on it.

Of course. I would have made more sense if Starboard has released their 2018 Sprint before the 2014 too. However, its probably indicative of learning and ongoing development process. Fair play to them for putting money into a niche and almost entirely performance orientated market. The question will be the rhetorical question of 'what is a world title worth to a brand ?'

Area 10

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #796 on: March 11, 2019, 03:24:07 AM »
photofr, you said:

“Standing inside a board, said board will roll a certain way.
Standing on top of a board, the roll will be exactly the opposite”.

Could you please explain the physics of this statement??

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #797 on: March 11, 2019, 05:03:03 AM »
It’s actually easy to demonstrate.
Pictures to follow when I have more time.

Imagine paddling ON TOP of a 14 footer, and your board tilts to the right. When this happens your feet will be to the right of the board’s axis.

Now imagine paddling INSIDE of a 14 footer, and same thing: your board tilts right. When this happens your feet will be to the LEFT of your board’s axis.

This is why people’s brains play tricks on the feeling of tippiness regarding dugout boards... when you are not used to them.
Nelo SUP - 14' x 23"
Nelo Surfski 560M - 18'4" x 17"

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #798 on: March 11, 2019, 05:36:43 AM »
I don't think that is fair and it's not true.

I believe it is a fair assessment. I've been on this thread since the very beginning and that's the impression I got.
We're not just talking about the GT now, this is not where the thread started. I've tested and owned few tippy
boards as narrow as 18" so I think I know how to spot a tippy board when I see one.

That's anything but a fair statement: How in the World can you attest that a board is tippy when you haven't been on one?

ELITE BOARDS
Similar to alpine skis, you can own an amazing race ski, heck, even the top three, and that doesn't mean much until you can totally master them. Anyway, explain to us how owning a few tippy boards will make you more competent at spotting a tippy board?

Because if enough people say they think it's tippy (depsite not using one) and the video shows it rolling around a bit more than a conventional board (which it appears to), I can see why he thinks the board is a bit much. Mind you, I've been through this myself (it's why I tested the starboard sprint 21.5 a few months back). Sooner or later you have to move beyond the anecdotes and just try it.

Well, enough people do say it's tippy, some even own and use it (or at least trying). A board which has more roll than usual (by your own admission) is exactly what people refer to as tippy mind you.
But for me what takes the prize is the fact their own team riders on their own official marketing material are having balance issues with the board on pure flat water. It tells me all I need to know.

And lets not forget the fact that side to side roll does affect speed. For the regular user that will probably kill any other benefits the board may provide.
in progress...

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #799 on: March 11, 2019, 06:21:10 AM »

1) Well, enough people do say it's tippy, some even own and use it (or at least trying).
2) A board which has more roll than usual (by your own admission) is exactly what people refer to as tippy mind you.
3) But for me what takes the prize is the fact their own team riders on their own official marketing material are having balance issues with the board on pure flat water. It tells me all I need to know.
4) And lets not forget the fact that side to side roll does affect speed. For the regular user that will probably kill any other benefits the board may provide.

1) Did anyone with the board in this thread who owns it say it was tippy ? In fact I think we've only had one actual owner of the board participate in the thread. Everything else has been armchair quarterbacking so several people (no more than handful) isn't worth that much in my view. Have you spoke to any of their team riders though ? That would be interesting to know.

2) Not if the roll is predictable (as I described earlier). Predictable primary stability is fine in my book provided you know that the secondary is there at some point. Other watercraft have this all of the time. Its just that many boards we're used to favour high primary.

3) Where have you seen these balance issues on their official marketing info ? Do you mean the videos ? I don't recall any with balance 'issues' but yes, there is board roll. The question is whether you see 'roll' as synonymous with 'issues'. I don't personally. Some people from years back may remember the K15 had the same rolly feeling - you just have to get used to it (whether we should or not is another discussion entirely !).

4) Ironically, if the form has rounded rails and underneath (as the signature does but the GT does not), the side to side roll may not be the huge penalty you suggest. I don't have the data to know whether that would "kill any other benefits the board may provide". I haven't paddled it to know yet. I'll let you know in 3 weeks what I find out when I actually try it. I suspect the 24.75 I'll just be able to manage but the 23 will be beyond me.

I'm not trying to suggest the board is mega stable here. It likely isn't. However, there are a lot of assumptions made here that I don't believe any facts are in evidence to support them. It's just opinions. That's fine, but lets call that what it is and not try to suggest these as facts and instead give more credence to anyone who has actually paddled one...... with conflicts of interest disclosed.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 07:24:31 AM by ukgm »

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #800 on: March 11, 2019, 07:08:28 AM »
It’s actually easy to demonstrate.
Pictures to follow when I have more time.

Imagine paddling ON TOP of a 14 footer, and your board tilts to the right. When this happens your feet will be to the right of the board’s axis.

Now imagine paddling INSIDE of a 14 footer, and same thing: your board tilts right. When this happens your feet will be to the LEFT of your board’s axis.

This is why people’s brains play tricks on the feeling of tippiness regarding dugout boards... when you are not used to them.
I’m going to need a diagram or two to understand your point, I’m afraid. Could you please just jot down what you mean?

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #801 on: March 11, 2019, 07:28:51 AM »
It’s actually easy to demonstrate.
Pictures to follow when I have more time.

Imagine paddling ON TOP of a 14 footer, and your board tilts to the right. When this happens your feet will be to the right of the board’s axis.

Now imagine paddling INSIDE of a 14 footer, and same thing: your board tilts right. When this happens your feet will be to the LEFT of your board’s axis.

This is why people’s brains play tricks on the feeling of tippiness regarding dugout boards... when you are not used to them.
I’m going to need a diagram or two to understand your point, I’m afraid. Could you please just jot down what you mean?

Yep, I think I see what he's getting at but if your stance is circa 20 inches wide, you'd need to tip the board a lot to get both feet past the central axis in any direction surely ?

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #802 on: March 11, 2019, 07:33:44 AM »

1) Well, enough people do say it's tippy, some even own and use it (or at least trying).
2) A board which has more roll than usual (by your own admission) is exactly what people refer to as tippy mind you.
3) But for me what takes the prize is the fact their own team riders on their own official marketing material are having balance issues with the board on pure flat water. It tells me all I need to know.
4) And lets not forget the fact that side to side roll does affect speed. For the regular user that will probably kill any other benefits the board may provide.

1) Did anyone with the board in this thread who owns it say it was tippy ? In fact I think we've only had one actual owner of the board participate in the thread. Everything else has been armchair quarterbacking so several people (no more than handful) isn't worth that much in my view. I don't know them personally to know their background, skill level or qualifications.

2) Not if the roll is predictable (as I described earlier). Predictable primary stability is fine in my book provided you know that the secondary is there at some point. Other watercraft have this all of the time. Its just that many boards we're used to favour high primary.

3) Where have you seen these balance issues on their official marketing info ? Do you mean the videos ? I don't recall any with balance 'issues' but yes, there is board roll. The question is whether you see 'roll' as synonymous with 'issues'. I don't personally.

4) Ironically, if the form has rounded rails and underneath (as the signature does but the GT does not), the side to side roll may not be the huge penalty you suggest. I don't have the data to know whether that would "kill any other benefits the board may provide". I haven't paddled it to know yet. I'll let you know in 3 weeks what I find out when I actually try it. I suspect the 24.75 I'll just be able to manage but the 23 will be beyond me.

I'm not trying to suggest the board is stable here. However, there are a lot of assumptions made here that I don't believe any facts are in evidence for to support them. It's just opinions. That's fine, but lets call that what it is rather than trying to pass these off as facts.

I'll reiterate again that I'm only talking about impressions, I couldn't pass it as a fact even if I owned the board as my preference and ability differs from others. I happened to like boards with roll and good secondary stability,
especially in rougher water it helps me keeping rhythm. The predictability you're talking about is not something everyone likes nor can adapt to and I've seen people struggle with that and just give up the board. This inability
to adapt is what going to kill the other benefits. If you can't trust the board not to roll and throw you off that means you're too tentative and losing speed to account for stability.

The video I'm referring too clearly shows what I'm talking about, specifically about the signature. The rider on the green board starts strong and then lost stability at 0:13 on the video and become very tentative thereafter.
The rider on the Pink board is tentative from the get go, and we're talking about glass like water with minor wakes with these are team riders. on a real race, they would not stand a chance.

I can only imagine a what's going to happen to a regular Joe on real race with 200 board around.

Here is the video for reference:

in progress...

ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #803 on: March 11, 2019, 07:35:43 AM »
Just as an aside, one of my paddling buddies has been borrowing the 24.75 Signature. He's ex national level C1 granted but he's just posted video footage of taking that board out on a downwinder in huge swell and a F6 gale. Its damn impressive.

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #804 on: March 11, 2019, 07:41:55 AM »
Just as an aside, one of my paddling buddies has been borrowing the 24.75 Signature. He's ex national level C1 granted but he's just posted video footage of taking that board out on a downwinder in huge swell and a F6 gale. Its damn impressive.

And the link to the video?
in progress...

Luc Benac

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #805 on: March 11, 2019, 07:46:27 AM »
It is funny but going through the thread, if I close my eyes, a minute I can imagine that we are talking about the original Naish Javelin (the Iggy design from 2011) :-)
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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #806 on: March 11, 2019, 08:13:44 AM »
It is funny but going through the thread, if I close my eyes, a minute I can imagine that we are talking about the original Naish Javelin (the Iggy design from 2011) :-)
Funny. I owned the original 17. And a while ago I downwinded the original 14. I did remember it (from around 2009-11) as being a bit of a handful. But now I was amazed at how stable it is, and especially how fast and easy it is in our conditions. That huge elf nose really works well locally here. It was faster and easier than a Bullet 14v2 in our conditions. It’s all perspective...

It’s kinda sad in a way that I’m probably better than 99% of other SUPers I know (that’s not saying much though because most people I know are beginners) but I’m hearing now about SUP feats and equipment that I just wouldn’t even bother trying to engage with. I’m just not good enough, and never will be. Yet I am probably the most SUP-obsessed person I’ve ever met, and have almost certainly spent more on equipment over the last 12 years than any other private individual in the UK. But I’m feeling pushed out of the sport in many ways. It’s only my incompetence I know, and I was lucky ever to have eg. won races in the first place, at my age. But it still feels a bit sad to be confronted so starkly with it. I probably won’t even be able to stand on the boards that the top National competitors (never mind the most elite internationally) within a year or two, never mind race them.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.


ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #807 on: March 11, 2019, 08:40:11 AM »
Just as an aside, one of my paddling buddies has been borrowing the 24.75 Signature. He's ex national level C1 granted but he's just posted video footage of taking that board out on a downwinder in huge swell and a F6 gale. Its damn impressive.

And the link to the video?

Its only on a friends private facebook page. (Area10 & Luc B, I've now been able to tag you into it as you're connected to me). It's pretty impressive to watch.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2019, 08:43:23 AM by ukgm »

Luc Benac

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #808 on: March 11, 2019, 08:42:51 AM »
Got it. Thanks Bryce.
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Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
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ukgm

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Re: NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race
« Reply #809 on: March 11, 2019, 08:45:06 AM »
I probably won’t even be able to stand on the boards that the top National competitors (never mind the most elite internationally) within a year or two, never mind race them.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

Yep, it's known as re-skilling in my field. It's taken a sport that was all about the paddling and water management into the balancing act Jimmy Terrell and others forecasted. It's happened, it's here and I'm out.

 


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