NELO is in for the games with Light Signature Race

[burchas]

I don't think that is fair and it's not true.

I believe it is a fair assessment. I've been on this thread since the very beginning and that's the impression I got.
We're not just talking about the GT now, this is not where the thread started. I've tested and owned few tippy
boards as narrow as 18" so I think I know how to spot a tippy board when I see one.

How many of the light signature boards have you paddled so far ?

None. That's not the point though. I was referring to the impression I got from this thread about the Nelo.

You're actually biased in that regard having riding the board for a while and getting use to it. I got use to tippy
boards as well and only realized I'm not in good position to judge after letting a fellow paddler/racer try the board
and getting it back after one minute because it was too much to handle.

When you read something like this from an owner:

The 26 RS is a lot more stable than the Signature and also fast. The 23 RS is tippy, similar to the 24.75 Signature, but it does not roll. So for me it is easier to handle. 2018 I paddled 1370 km and I think, about 900 of it was with the RS 26 and I enyoyed every km.
Signature: oh shit, boat waves
RS: cool, boat waves.

It tells you a thing or two as well. Add to that the video Light posted of all four board with team riders on them on flat water and you can clearly see some struggle moments in simple wakes. That's how I got the impression.

[Area 10]

Maybe we should use the word “trembly” instead? In the videos of the Nelo boards being paddled the thing that struck me was how much side-to-side (aka roll) micro-movements there were. No doubt you have to learn to ignore these “trembles”, which might be related to the light weight, whereas tippiness is related more to the rail shapes, bottom shapes and width.

I’m an old git though and so my proprioceptive abilities are weak: my brain is trying to sift through a lot of white noise being fed it by my joints and limbs, and then any signals it sends out to the muscles etc get partially corrupted on the way and then not enacted very well because of wear and tear in the joints, tendons, ligaments etc. So, my knackered old physiology deals badly with trembliness, quite often sending out signals for compensatory movements that are far too extreme, creating a big wobble out of a little tremble. The end result: exhaustion. Not the board’s fault. No doubt if I deliberately tipped the board to one side it would resist roll just as much as other boards. But for an old geezer, tippiness can translate to falling in nevertheless. But ukgm is a fit and younger chappie so his perspective is probably a lot different.

And yes, the RS is wonderfully relaxing for its width

[burchas]

...In the videos of the Nelo boards being paddled the thing that struck me was how much side-to-side (aka roll) micro-movements there were...

The thing that struck me was how 2 of their team riders could not handle the board on pure flat water losing balance on simple wakes and on
simple buoy turn.

Now lets put them in open water with some good tasty side chop, it would make a good instructional video on how to fall from
a dugout without cracking your shin because if I'm to judge by this video, they had a lot of practice.

[Area 10]

Ah yes...all those days spent nursing a sore shin from catching it on the narrow sidewall when falling during downwinding my Starboard Ace 14x25 in 25+ knots... and then struggling to get back into the damn clog back over those narrow sidewalls in heavy seas... I remember them well. Happy days... not!! I used to call that board “The UTB” (Ugly Torture Board). Sharp sidewalls on a cockpit are the devil’s work in heavy seas. In fact they can be downright dangerous in high winds.

But as long as Bruno does ok with it in the 11 Cities race, that’s all that matters really. Right?

[burchas]

But as long as Bruno does ok with it in the 11 Cities race, that’s all that matters really. Right?

I believe I can do ok on this board, Bruno on the other hand is going to kick-ass on it so yes, that’s all that matters at the end of the day.

[ukgm]

Maybe we should use the word “trembly” instead? In the videos of the Nelo boards being paddled the thing that struck me was how much side-to-side (aka roll) micro-movements there were. No doubt you have to learn to ignore these “trembles”, which might be related to the light weight, whereas tippiness is related more to the rail shapes, bottom shapes and width.

I’m an old git though and so my proprioceptive abilities are weak: my brain is trying to sift through a lot of white noise being fed it by my joints and limbs, and then any signals it sends out to the muscles etc get partially corrupted on the way and then not enacted very well because of wear and tear in the joints, tendons, ligaments etc. So, my knackered old physiology deals badly with trembliness, quite often sending out signals for compensatory movements that are far too extreme, creating a big wobble out of a little tremble. The end result: exhaustion. Not the board’s fault. No doubt if I deliberately tipped the board to one side it would resist roll just as much as other boards. But for an old geezer, tippiness can translate to falling in nevertheless. But ukgm is a fit and younger chappie so his perspective is probably a lot different.

And yes, the RS is wonderfully relaxing for its width

This is exactly it. I agree with your thoughts on this. Ignore the trembles - they’re not going to throw you off. You think they will because that’s what years of using heavier boards tells you but the secondary stability is high on the GT. This is the learning curve, I mention a lot. It’s the need to separate the effects of inertia from those of stability.

[ukgm]

...In the videos of the Nelo boards being paddled the thing that struck me was how much side-to-side (aka roll) micro-movements there were...

The thing that struck me was how 2 of their team riders could not handle the board on pure flat water losing balance on simple wakes and on
simple buoy turn.

Now lets put them in open water with some good tasty side chop, it would make a good instructional video on how to fall from
a dugout without cracking your shin because if I'm to judge by this video, they had a lot of practice.

I suspect the GT is going to eventually eclipse the signature. Particularly with the narrower widths of the GT on the way.

[ukgm]

I wouldn’t be comparing the signature to something like the RS. That’s apples to oranges really. You should compare the signature to the Starboard sprint and the GT to the RS.

[burchas]

...In the videos of the Nelo boards being paddled the thing that struck me was how much side-to-side (aka roll) micro-movements there were...

The thing that struck me was how 2 of their team riders could not handle the board on pure flat water losing balance on simple wakes and on
simple buoy turn.

Now lets put them in open water with some good tasty side chop, it would make a good instructional video on how to fall from
a dugout without cracking your shin because if I'm to judge by this video, they had a lot of practice.

I suspect the GT is going to eventually eclipse the signature. Particularly with the narrower widths of the GT on the way.

IMO it would have made much more sense if they'd introduced the GT first. It looks a lot more versatile than the signature and much more suitable
for all around racing. First impressions are crucial and a tippy board like the signature doesn't make for a good first impression unless you launched
it on the 11 cities with Bruno on it.

[photofr]

Ah yes...all those days spent nursing a sore shin from catching it on the narrow sidewall when falling during downwinding my Starboard Ace 14x25 in 25+ knots... and then struggling to get back into the damn clog back over those narrow sidewalls in heavy seas... I remember them well. Happy days... not!! I used to call that board “The UTB” (Ugly Torture Board). Sharp sidewalls on a cockpit are the devil’s work in heavy seas. In fact they can be downright dangerous in high winds.

But as long as Bruno does ok with it in the 11 Cities race, that’s all that matters really. Right?

This is a bit like 'déjà-vu' within the surfski World, and here's a somewhat typical scenario I have faced from students in the past:
Paddlers get a different surfski, and certain paddlers still do not know (and worst, do not want to learn) how to get back into their craft.

Believe me when I say: "If it takes you more than 5 seconds to get back into your surfski or SUP board, you should be seeking alternative ways for getting back "aboard"." At the very least, you'll want to learn HOW TO GET BACK IN, in a hurry.

STRUGGLING
Struggling to get back onto your board is unacceptable for any paddler's level.

OPEN WATER
Here's food for thoughts...
In the 14' range, let's remember that dugout boards like the Ace have made some amazing crossings, great podiums, and fantastic records on Downwind paddling (e.g. Molokai Channel, M2M). If dugout boards were so bad for Open Water, I doubt seriously they would be amongst the best in DW.

[photofr]

I don't think that is fair and it's not true.

I believe it is a fair assessment. I've been on this thread since the very beginning and that's the impression I got.
We're not just talking about the GT now, this is not where the thread started. I've tested and owned few tippy
boards as narrow as 18" so I think I know how to spot a tippy board when I see one.

That's anything but a fair statement: How in the World can you attest that a board is tippy when you haven't been on one?

ELITE BOARDS
Similar to alpine skis, you can own an amazing race ski, heck, even the top three, and that doesn't mean much until you can totally master them. Anyway, explain to us how owning a few tippy boards will make you more competent at spotting a tippy board?

[photofr]

I don't think that is fair and it's not true.

I believe it is a fair assessment. I've been on this thread since the very beginning and that's the impression I got.
We're not just talking about the GT now, this is not where the thread started. I've tested and owned few tippy
boards as narrow as 18" so I think I know how to spot a tippy board when I see one.

How many of the light signature boards have you paddled so far ?

None. That's not the point though. I was referring to the impression I got from this thread about the Nelo.
When you read something like this from an owner:

The 26 RS is a lot more stable than the Signature and also fast. The 23 RS is tippy, similar to the 24.75 Signature, but it does not roll. So for me it is easier to handle. 2018 I paddled 1370 km and I think, about 900 of it was with the RS 26 and I enyoyed every km.
Signature: oh shit, boat waves
RS: cool, boat waves.

It tells you a thing or two as well. Add to that the video Light posted of all four board with team riders on them on flat water and you can clearly see some struggle moments in simple wakes. That's how I got the impression.

WHAT IS THE SIGNATURE AIMED AT
After paddling the Signature 2.0 for longer than most ever have, I can say with certainty that the Signature isn't just aimed at flat water. In fact, it's an ALL WATER board. To simplify, here's how I would rate the Signature 2.0 (14x23) in a hurry:
Flat water: 9/10 (higher if it had less rocker)
Sprints: 9.9/10 (it's just a blast)
General Ocean Paddling: 9.5/10 (because it's got just the right amount of rocker to make it really fun)
Upwind: 9/10
Small downwind: 8/10
Messy conditions: 7.5/10 (higher score if the paddler is more competent than I)
Bigger downwind: doable, but not necessarily aimed at bigger conditions.

INSIDE / ON TOP
Again, do not mix apples and oranges!!!
It's easier to think of a paddler on the Ace, and / or Signature 2.0 as being "inside".
It's easier to think of a paddler on the Allstar, and / or RS as being "on top".

Standing inside a board, said board will roll a certain way.
Standing on top of a board, the roll will be exactly the opposite.
If you are not used to that roll, you are likely to blame that board as being too tippy.

Paddle at your ability, but just because you haven't accustomed yourself to paddle a certain type of board or a certain board doesn't mean that it's automatically "unstable" or "tippy".

You could also say:
The 26" wide board you are on is right there at your comfort level.
Standing on top of a wider board reassures you and has you right there at your comfort level (aiming at what you are comfortable with).

[photofr]

...In the videos of the Nelo boards being paddled the thing that struck me was how much side-to-side (aka roll) micro-movements there were...

The thing that struck me was how 2 of their team riders could not handle the board on pure flat water losing balance on simple wakes and on
simple buoy turn.

Now lets put them in open water with some good tasty side chop, it would make a good instructional video on how to fall from
a dugout without cracking your shin because if I'm to judge by this video, they had a lot of practice.

I suspect the GT is going to eventually eclipse the signature. Particularly with the narrower widths of the GT on the way.

Apparently, there's some sort of "noise" on the Internet about how a 22" Signature may also be on the way. Hum....... Interesting !

[ukgm]

...In the videos of the Nelo boards being paddled the thing that struck me was how much side-to-side (aka roll) micro-movements there were...

The thing that struck me was how 2 of their team riders could not handle the board on pure flat water losing balance on simple wakes and on
simple buoy turn.

Now lets put them in open water with some good tasty side chop, it would make a good instructional video on how to fall from
a dugout without cracking your shin because if I'm to judge by this video, they had a lot of practice.

I suspect the GT is going to eventually eclipse the signature. Particularly with the narrower widths of the GT on the way.

Apparently, there's some sort of "noise" on the Internet about how a 22" Signature may also be on the way. Hum....... Interesting !

Yes there is. I've been kept updated of what they are releasing next. I would guess that board is purely to support Bruno's needs because the starboard sprint 21.5 has features to help stability and that is a struggle. A 22 of a performance orientated speed machine is highly HIGHLY specialized development.

[ukgm]

I don't think that is fair and it's not true.

I believe it is a fair assessment. I've been on this thread since the very beginning and that's the impression I got.
We're not just talking about the GT now, this is not where the thread started. I've tested and owned few tippy
boards as narrow as 18" so I think I know how to spot a tippy board when I see one.

That's anything but a fair statement: How in the World can you attest that a board is tippy when you haven't been on one?

ELITE BOARDS
Similar to alpine skis, you can own an amazing race ski, heck, even the top three, and that doesn't mean much until you can totally master them. Anyway, explain to us how owning a few tippy boards will make you more competent at spotting a tippy board?

Because if enough people say they think it's tippy (depsite not using one) and the video shows it rolling around a bit more than a conventional board (which it appears to), I can see why he thinks the board is a bit much. Mind you, I've been through this myself (it's why I tested the starboard sprint 21.5 a few months back). Sooner or later you have to move beyond the anecdotes and just try it.