Gladiator Fin doesn't fit into SIC FX-Pro Fin Box

[MaineSUP]

I bought a SIC FX Pro 14 last year.  Last week I bought a Gladiator Elite fin to help make this narrow board more fun when its messy.  Until now I used the stock SIC 8.5 inch fin. 

The Gladiator fin arrived and when I removed the stock fin I noticed that it was sticking and did not come out easily, like the fin was a little too wide for the fin box or vice versa.

The base of the Gladiator fin is much longer than the stock fin, it looks like it should fit in the fin box but would take up the entire thing.  When I tried to put the Gladiator fin in it immediately got stuck.  Out of frustration I ended up trying to force it in and eventually broke the fin (involved a towel and a hammer).  Trying to force the fin was foolish and I'm thankful I didn't damage the board or the fin box.

I swear I've read others post about folks using Gladiator fins for their SIC boards and am looking for advice.  Is this fin not meant to fit in this fin box?  Is the fin box more narrow than it should be? Is there a way to make this work, i.e. sanding the inside of the fin box? Thanks. 

[PonoBill]

Repeat after me--never force a fin. The simplest thing is to call Larry. I will warn you that Larry likes to talk, but he's a fountain of information, 99% of it invaluable. If there's a problem with fit he'll take care of it.

Wait. You BROKE an LA Fin?? That's like ten to twenty or so layers of glass. WTF did you hit it with??

If you broke the fin, I'd be worried about the box. It might not look damaged, but I'd bet a case of twinkies that it is.

Second, if a fin won't fit, you can file it. File meaning a good size, coarse file with a good handle, and the fin placed flat on a bench with some stops (or if you're a butcher like me, a few strategically placed screws) to hold it in place. Tap the cross-pin out. You can drill a hole in a board to support the area around the pin and knock it out with a drift. Don't lose the pin. File a bit, paying attention to keeping the file flat and the strokes long. Switch sides every few strokes.  Try again with some chalk on the fin to show the high points. File those down. Lather, rinse, repeat with doses of scotch to reinforce your patience. Once the fin fits in snugly, it's happy days. If you go a little too far a bit of mylar as a shim will solve any over-exuberance issues.

Put the angle grinder down!! This is not a place for power or speed. Yeah, sure, the good guys carve an entire fin from a slab of glass with an angle grinder and eyeball, including foiling the fin and making the base. that's not me, and it's probably not you.

[mrbig]

See earlier threads on the differences between U.S. plate and screw and bahne us box.

As you have discovered they ain't the same! Pin is in a slightly different location, and as you painfully discovered, one is slightly narrower.

Did a lot of sanding with 400 grit to get my MFC to fit.

Larry has a good reputation, call and see..

[2Rivers]

US STANDARD base
Fits STARBOARD, NAISH, JP-AUSTRALIA, FANATIC, BIC SPORT, LOKAHI, MISTRAL and all major worldwide production brands.This is the same as found on many windsurfing boards and is wider and deeper with the pin set further from the deck of the board. The base is 9.2mm thick.

US SURF base
This is the same as fitted as standard in many surf longboards. It is a narrower and shallower base as used by SIC, 404, ANCHOR PADDLEBOARS, IMAGINE, GLIDE, BOGA etc. Narrower and shallower than the US base with the pin set closer to the deck of the board. The base is 9.0mm thick.

Data stolen for Black Project Fins.

[Eagle]

..... I swear I've read others post about folks using Gladiator fins for their SIC boards and am looking for advice.  Is this fin not meant to fit in this fin box?  Is the fin box more narrow than it should be? Is there a way to make this work, i.e. sanding the inside of the fin box? Thanks.

Sounds like your Gladiator Elite may need some coaxing.  If too wide just get a palm sander with 60 grit and take it down as needed.  Here it is used in our SIC Bullet 14V2 and fits perfectly fine.  If your fin box is shorter -> you can leave the front tip of the fin sitting on the bottom.  Not perfect but still works close enough. 

[mrbig]

+1 2rivers. Aging brain couldn't remember those details. Be careful with using a plate and screw from the other manufacturer.

I put a dent, and then a hole, in my Bluefin box by using a plate and screw from the OTHAH f%&*ing design. Aaargh.

[Larry Allison]

I bought a SIC FX Pro 14 last year.  Last week I bought a Gladiator Elite fin to help make this narrow board more fun when its messy.  Until now I used the stock SIC 8.5 inch fin. 

The Gladiator fin arrived and when I removed the stock fin I noticed that it was sticking and did not come out easily, like the fin was a little too wide for the fin box or vice versa.

The base of the Gladiator fin is much longer than the stock fin, it looks like it should fit in the fin box but would take up the entire thing.  When I tried to put the Gladiator fin in it immediately got stuck.  Out of frustration I ended up trying to force it in and eventually broke the fin (involved a towel and a hammer).  Trying to force the fin was foolish and I'm thankful I didn't damage the board or the fin box.

I swear I've read others post about folks using Gladiator fins for their SIC boards and am looking for advice.  Is this fin not meant to fit in this fin box?  Is the fin box more narrow than it should be? Is there a way to make this work, i.e. sanding the inside of the fin box? Thanks.

WAIT!!! Is this fin made by me or is it a Carbon Honycomb imitation sold by Sup Gladiator of my Fiberglas Design, Which I stopped making 2 years ago?

[MaineSUP]

Hammer, I broke the fin by hitting it with a hammer.

I won't force a fin again and next time if a fin is too tight of a fit I'll file or sand it.  I checked the fin box carefully and it looks like I avoided damage.

Larry, I ordered the fin on amazon, I thought it was legit but sounds like it was a carbon honeycomb knock off. 

The second time around I'll do this right and will contact you directly for advice and the right fin.

Thanks all for the responses.

[Board Stiff]

Hey MaineSUP, I've used the Gladiator Hybrid in my SIC X-14 Pro without any trouble, but I think I may have sanded it down a bit to fit the box on a previous board (after taking the hammer and towel to it!  )

I've found that the Gladiator improves tracking and helps with primary stability in moderate chop, especially as I'm getting used to a board. Once I'm more comfortable on the board, and in messier conditions, I find the smaller SIC Weedless fin can actually be more stable, as it doesn't get pushed and rolled as much by waves and chop coming from the side.

[Bean]

Here is a picture comparison of the differences between the US Surf and US Standard fin bases.

On the left is the fin from my Jimmy Lewis B&B noserider, designed to slip into a US Surf box.
On the right is the fin from my Fanatic Stylemaster, designed for a US Standard box.
 
A fin with a Surf base can fit reasonably in a Standard box.  Conversely, a fin with a Standard will not fit in a Surf box without first milling the sides and milling the "hump" on the bottom.

[Eagle]

..... I've found that the Gladiator improves tracking and helps with primary stability in moderate chop, especially as I'm getting used to a board. Once I'm more comfortable on the board, and in messier conditions, I find the smaller SIC Weedless fin can actually be more stable, as it doesn't get pushed and rolled as much by waves and chop coming from the side.

This is 100% true.  May sound weird to some -> but the Gladiator fins do get pushed around in slop and reflected chop.  They are very good fins for tracking but can stall and roll DW when steep waves behind push the fin.  The Gladiators are good on flat to take the edge off a tippy narrow board at the learning stage.  The SIC Weedless 8.3 is better overall AW fin -> and the 7.0 a looser DW fin once stability is no longer a big issue in waves.

But makes much more sense the honeycomb carbon fin broke.  The glass fins shown in my pic are very robust -> especially the JL Tracker.  That thing is heavy as sin but near bombproof.  The Hybrid is next then the Elite.  All my other lighter fins are fragile in comparison.

[Dwight (DW)]

I'd love to hear the history of how we got two nearly identical fin bases from Larry. I'm sure he knows.

The Tuttle boxes have also become a screwed up mess. Designed in the US by Larry Tuttle, the box is 5/8" wide. Unfortunately, most are made in Asia today, where they changed it to metric at 16mm. So now we often see slight fit issues.

[Subber]

Here is a picture comparison of the differences between the US Surf and US Standard fin bases.

On the left is the fin from my Jimmy Lewis B&B noserider, designed to slip into a US Surf box.
On the right is the fin from my Fanatic Stylemaster, designed for a US Standard box.
 
A fin with a Surf base can fit reasonably in a Standard box.  Conversely, a fin with a Standard will not fit in a Surf box without first milling the sides and milling the "hump" on the bottom.

Cool, now know the terminology.

I bought a 11.5" Naish Glide AST fin (it was supposed to be a Naish Nalu 10.5"
but I got it off Amazon for a song - some kind of close out - so I just kept it to try it out). 

It had that bump on the bottom.
So, I sawed the bump off.
But then, I found it was just too wide - wider than all my other fins
(and this was on my Laird Surftech, which has a wide fin box compared to my B&B).
So I got a flat file and filed it down thinner - took a bit.
Fits and works fine now.
(Of course, you probably wouldn't feel you should have to do that if you paid a regular price.)

@MaineSUP - If fins are tight (but not too tight, I use a rubber mallet I got at the Dollar Store.)
There is a video of Jimmy Lewis pounding a fin in using a rubber mallet - of course, he is vouching for his construction.

[Bean]

I'd love to hear the history of how we got two nearly identical fin bases from Larry. I'm sure he knows.

The Tuttle boxes have also become a screwed up mess. Designed in the US by Larry Tuttle, the box is 5/8" wide. Unfortunately, most are made in Asia today, where they changed it to metric at 16mm. So now we often see slight fit issues.

I second that request, what can you tell us Larry?

[PonoBill]

Larry, I ordered the fin on amazon, I thought it was legit but sounds like it was a carbon honeycomb knock off. 

The second time around I'll do this right and will contact you directly for advice and the right fin.

Thanks all for the responses.

Ok, that makes SO much more sense. If you broke one of Larry's solid fiberglass fins your fin box would almost certainly be destroyed.