Author Topic: How are factory boards painted?  (Read 12857 times)

PonoBill

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #15 on: March 29, 2017, 07:55:38 AM »
The paint issue has been raging in the custom car world for a long time, basically because as soon as you paint more than one or two cars you have to deal with the government--with good reason. The solvents released are toxic. Older finishes like Lacquer are now completely illegal--almost as strongly prohibited as lead. High-velocity sprays aren't legal, a lot of two part paints are no only sold to pros with monitored booths. And to make it all worse, the new paints that replace the nasty stuff is harder to use, though the results are excellent once you master everything.

Bottom line--spraying paint has become even more of a professional skill than it was in the past, and the barriers to doing a good job in the USA are greater than ever. Simple answer--get a pro to paint your board.

There's no better proof of the difference than the zoner that sometimes shows off his work here. I don't remember his alias--eDubz maybe? I could paint 50 boards and never get close to his work. You can find a bodyshop in your neighborhood that will do the work for a less money than investing in all the gear.

Epoxy is a bitch to get an even tint or decent polish. So you spray it with car paint. That's why watching Jimmy Lewis do a perfect tint job effortlessly is so frustrating. Every tint I've tried looks like I was trying to draw a map of china but it ran.

Oh, here we go: http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,30140.75.html  This guy is unreal. I have to get him to come to Hood River to paint my eTR3.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 07:57:35 AM by PonoBill »
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Bean

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2017, 08:02:18 AM »

PonoBill

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2017, 08:26:12 AM »
Yeah, that rail repair on the Starboard has me shaking my head. That's just not possible.
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Badger

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #18 on: March 29, 2017, 12:21:43 PM »
Badger, epoxy is certainly one of the reasons why in production, boards are painted.  An epoxy finish takes a ton more work to get to gloss.  Whereas you can polish a polyester resin to gloss from  a final sanding at 400 or 600 grit, epoxy resin requires sanding to 3000+ grit before it can be polished.  And even then, it does not look as good as poly. This is of course why many custom boards come with a sanded finish.  (Plus a sanded finish is faster and holds wax better.)

Throwing a polyester gloss coat on epoxy does not work well either, because at best you will have a mechanical bond between two materials that have different flex characteristics and expand and contract at different rates. 

So, the compromise has been urethane paints for colors and clear coats.  Not a bad compromise in my book.


That is an excellent explanation that makes perfect sense to me.


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PonoBill

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #19 on: March 29, 2017, 01:25:09 PM »
Yes. The brands are basically screwing as much money out of us for the most cheaply-made product they can get away with. You can't blame them - they aren't running charities, and their distribution networks and marketing budgets and skills allow them to exclude the competition quite effectively. Most of the main brands are made in the same factory, so that factory has almost a de facto monopoly. Fortunately, the costs of the main brand's products (partly due to transport costs) has now risen to the extent that small local brands and shapers could be profitable, and can compete on price and quality. We are already seeing smaller boutique brands appearing amongst the podium finishes at international races, and this tendency may continue to grow. Hopefully the increase in competition will drive an improvement in build quality. The customer can also play a part in this, by not accepting shoddily-made gear.

The quality of production boards has nothing to do with monopoly or screwing people and everything to do with supply chain. Selling worldwide in small shops means distribution and crazy transport cost. Anyone who has done it can tell you that your cost to produce something has to be 1/4 of the retail price if you are going to see a 20% profit. Retail shops, distributors, and marketing consume 1/4. 1/4, 1/4. The rest is yours. Of course if there's a glitch, you miss the beginning of the season, you have a warranty issue, people don't like the new color, somebody effectively screws your reputation on line, and all that 1/4 goes away.

So yes, there's a great opportunity for local production.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

rg15

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #20 on: March 29, 2017, 07:00:06 PM »
Awesome info! Thanks everyone.

So if i wanted to paint the bottom of my board and the rails one solid color (while still looking decent), what would be the best way to go about that? The research I've been doing points to a resin tint/cut lap, but I hear thats hard to make look good. Would it be fine to just paint the blank?

« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 07:14:38 PM by rg15 »
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TallDude

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #21 on: March 29, 2017, 07:51:26 PM »
If you want the color to last, surface paint is the way to go. The epoxy will yellow, even the UV resistant epoxy. You can use a water base craft paint on the blank if you want that look, but it will yellow over time. Poly is more work for sure, but it gives that classic color depth.

Area 10

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #22 on: March 29, 2017, 08:32:39 PM »
Yes. The brands are basically screwing as much money out of us for the most cheaply-made product they can get away with. You can't blame them - they aren't running charities, and their distribution networks and marketing budgets and skills allow them to exclude the competition quite effectively. Most of the main brands are made in the same factory, so that factory has almost a de facto monopoly. Fortunately, the costs of the main brand's products (partly due to transport costs) has now risen to the extent that small local brands and shapers could be profitable, and can compete on price and quality. We are already seeing smaller boutique brands appearing amongst the podium finishes at international races, and this tendency may continue to grow. Hopefully the increase in competition will drive an improvement in build quality. The customer can also play a part in this, by not accepting shoddily-made gear.

The quality of production boards has nothing to do with monopoly or screwing people and everything to do with supply chain. Selling worldwide in small shops means distribution and crazy transport cost. Anyone who has done it can tell you that your cost to produce something has to be 1/4 of the retail price if you are going to see a 20% profit. Retail shops, distributors, and marketing consume 1/4. 1/4, 1/4. The rest is yours. Of course if there's a glitch, you miss the beginning of the season, you have a warranty issue, people don't like the new color, somebody effectively screws your reputation on line, and all that 1/4 goes away.

So yes, there's a great opportunity for local production.
You have a point. But it's not all about the supply chain, just as it's not all about the brands maximising profit. Jimmy Lewis boards are better made than anyone else's, and they are noticeably cheaper in most markets worldwide than other premium brands too. I've owned 4 JL boards and have been impressed with the construction of each. Not as good as the custom I now have, but definitely a cut above the rest both in the durability/weight/cost equation and fit and finish. The difference of course is that JL boards are not made in the Cobra factory, and the boss man himself puts a lot of effort into watching over the production.

If all boards were made like the JL full PVC sandwich, and at that price, then that might be just enough to discourage local production in a market with such low margins. A local shaper is never going to be rich. But he can do better than a typical Cobra-made board if he has a modicum of skill and experience. Unfortunately he's not going to have a marketing budget anything like the best-known brands, so unless customers mention them on places like this, most people will never even know that getting a local custom is even possible.

PonoBill

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2017, 09:02:32 PM »
Jimmy's boards aren't made at Cobra, they're made in Vietnam. And Jimmy is always ready to drop everything and go to Vietnam any time there's an issue. As anyone who knows him will tell you, it has nothing to do with quality control. Jimmy always has a great time in Vietnam. If he didn't love Maui so much he'd probably move there. Just one of those happy coincidences.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2017, 09:05:11 PM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

TallDude

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #24 on: March 30, 2017, 11:36:05 AM »
Awesome info! Thanks everyone.

So if i wanted to paint the bottom of my board and the rails one solid color (while still looking decent), what would be the best way to go about that? The research I've been doing points to a resin tint/cut lap, but I hear thats hard to make look good. Would it be fine to just paint the blank?
The green board I'm on in my Talldude photo is a board I shaped and painted the blank lime green. Then I just did UV resistant clear epoxy glassing over it. Now 6 years later, the green has a very slightly dirty brown tint over it. Still surfs great:)

Area 10

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2017, 12:01:52 PM »
Jimmy's boards aren't made at Cobra, they're made in Vietnam. And Jimmy is always ready to drop everything and go to Vietnam any time there's an issue. As anyone who knows him will tell you, it has nothing to do with quality control. Jimmy always has a great time in Vietnam. If he didn't love Maui so much he'd probably move there. Just one of those happy coincidences.
You seem to be arguing with yourself here, I'm afraid.

Bulky

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2017, 04:16:35 PM »
If you want to see a master working with tinted resins follow rayluckesurfboards on Instagram.  He's posted a couple of videos the last few days that make it look so easy.  (look for the one with the red board)

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2017, 04:54:22 PM »
But if you really want the full effect, you have to be in the room with him while the poly is flowing..... ::)  Automotive paint is even nastier. Do your own personal fume test, and you'll see why epoxy is friendlier finish.

eDUBz

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2017, 08:17:51 AM »
Resin tint  8) all the crap they use in across the pond is nasty stuff, the don't have EPA to regulate and they use whatever they can spray.
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Bean

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Re: How are factory boards painted?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2017, 08:34:18 AM »
eDUBz, are you using water-borne urethane paints in your color match repairs?