Author Topic: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???  (Read 35858 times)

Rideordie

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #75 on: April 04, 2017, 01:01:08 PM »
Burchas, That is Very fast for a 12 6 x 27 board.  You must really be able to fly on a narrow 14. 

Eagle, I agree with everything that you said.  The review did confuse me on the 23 vs 24.5  Does not make sense.  I hope that I get a chance to test both of them at the Carolina Cup.  I did briefly test a 2016 14 x 25 last year and I was very impressed, but did not have a GPS watch on.  Felt very quick to speed, stable and incredibly fast upwind.     
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burchas

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #76 on: April 04, 2017, 01:50:23 PM »
Burchas, That is Very fast for a 12 6 x 27 board.  You must really be able to fly on a narrow 14. 

Eagle, I agree with everything that you said.  The review did confuse me on the 23 vs 24.5  Does not make sense.  I hope that I get a chance to test both of them at the Carolina Cup.  I did briefly test a 2016 14 x 25 last year and I was very impressed, but did not have a GPS watch on.  Felt very quick to speed, stable and incredibly fast upwind.     

Adding a ventral fin will do good things to your top speed and glide,
and while on the subject, on the Carolina Cup, be sure to check out
the SIC boards, Not the demo units but the boards their riders will
use for the race, You just might be persuaded to wait a bit more to
pull the trigger on a new board...
in progress...

warmuth

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #77 on: April 04, 2017, 02:18:01 PM »
"The 23 has a much sharper entry with lower volume in the nose. Where the 24.5 is forgiving and floaty the 23 can feel a bit edgy and nervous. The slightest tip of the board on the 23 results in a much quicker steering response than on the more forgiving nose of the 24.5. The 24.5 moves faster downwind with that extra nose volume starting to pay dividends. The 24.5’s easy going nature allows the rider to concentrate less on course and more on just paddling. Check out on the 23 and you’ll soon find yourself off course."

Cannot comment on the 2017 AS23 but my 2016 is like what is described.  For me the 24.5 is very stable and hard to fall off vs the 23 quite a bit more tippy in all situations.  If you are not solidly planted on the 23 you will fall off once you overweight the rails.  The 23 is a fantastic technique training tool for balance and even power distribution.

"The 24.5 however is not as stable as the 23. You read that right. We verified this with a myriad of test riders saying the same thing.  The 23 just sits lower in the water and the 1 inch gap in width is not noticeable with respect to stability. "

This comment seems very off especially -> and was wondering why they would say this.  It confuses the prospective purchaser or reader so kinda discredits the entire review for me.  Have never heard anyone say that the AS24.5 is less stable than the AS23.  Would probs be a good idea to test the 24.5 and 23 yourself and make your own determination.  The 23 is a really nice board if you take the time to learn how to balance on it -> so you can put down good solid power consistently.  The 24.5 you can hop right on and go very easy at full power.

My take is that Connor and Kai have alien balance vs my balance is complete average joe crap.  No bs.

  Stability can be hard to define. My 25" 404V3 is the most stable race board Ive owned in flat water. More stable than the vapor, sidewinder or whiplash. It's also tied or very close with the whiplash as the least stable in chop. The Vapor somehow gains stability from rough water, don't ask me to explain why, I can't make sense of it. There are definitely scenarios where i could make the case that any of those four boards would be the best choice over the others.

Eagle

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #78 on: April 04, 2017, 03:52:57 PM »
For the AS23 it is less stable than the AS24.5 and AS25 in every instance I can think of.  Now if talking about other boards like my other 4 -> can say that my pintail Touring 30 is less stable than my AS23 when snapping a quick buoy turn.

Have you compared the AS23 and AS24.5 or AS25 directly firsthand?  The difference in stability is vast.
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Eagle

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #79 on: April 04, 2017, 04:27:13 PM »
Most average peeps that hop on the AS23 for the very first time cannot stand stationary without bracing or falling off.  Whereas on the AS24.5 or AS25 you can stand stationary and paddle normally off the bat.  Many on the AS23 have to paddle to gain some stability from speed and momentum and keeping a paddle in the water.  24.5 is only 1.5" wider but that equates to a lot of stability at 23 or less.

Once you get the hang of the AS23 triple concave though -> it becomes easy to stand stationary and every other wider board you paddle becomes a dock.  Took my Bullet yesterday for a 12.2 mile AW ocean paddle loop and was perfectly fine vs my AS23 over 5.3 miles could just get home standing and dry.  My legs were toast dealing with the wind swell and chop and especially reflected cross chop on that narrower board.  At 24.5 and up it is quite a leap up in stability from a 23.  25" wide boards like the AS and Eradicator custom are very stable comparatively.

As noted before a few times now -> the only board I have paddled less stable than the AS23 was the discontinued Race25.  That board had no hard edges to balance on and not a board I wanted to ever own.  Just too much work for too little fun.  ;)
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ukgm

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #80 on: April 05, 2017, 12:18:46 AM »
Burchas, That is Very fast for a 12 6 x 27 board.  You must really be able to fly on a narrow 14. 

Eagle, I agree with everything that you said.  The review did confuse me on the 23 vs 24.5  Does not make sense.  I hope that I get a chance to test both of them at the Carolina Cup.  I did briefly test a 2016 14 x 25 last year and I was very impressed, but did not have a GPS watch on.  Felt very quick to speed, stable and incredibly fast upwind.     

Adding a ventral fin will do good things to your top speed and glide,
and while on the subject, on the Carolina Cup, be sure to check out
the SIC boards, Not the demo units but the boards their riders will
use for the race, You just might be persuaded to wait a bit more to
pull the trigger on a new board...

Do go on.......elaborate. :-)

ukgm

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #81 on: April 05, 2017, 12:20:40 AM »
"The 23 has a much sharper entry with lower volume in the nose. Where the 24.5 is forgiving and floaty the 23 can feel a bit edgy and nervous. The slightest tip of the board on the 23 results in a much quicker steering response than on the more forgiving nose of the 24.5. The 24.5 moves faster downwind with that extra nose volume starting to pay dividends. The 24.5’s easy going nature allows the rider to concentrate less on course and more on just paddling. Check out on the 23 and you’ll soon find yourself off course."

Cannot comment on the 2017 AS23 but my 2016 is like what is described.  For me the 24.5 is very stable and hard to fall off vs the 23 quite a bit more tippy in all situations.  If you are not solidly planted on the 23 you will fall off once you overweight the rails.  The 23 is a fantastic technique training tool for balance and even power distribution.

"The 24.5 however is not as stable as the 23. You read that right. We verified this with a myriad of test riders saying the same thing.  The 23 just sits lower in the water and the 1 inch gap in width is not noticeable with respect to stability. "

This comment seems very off especially -> and was wondering why they would say this.  It confuses the prospective purchaser or reader so kinda discredits the entire review for me.  Have never heard anyone say that the AS24.5 is less stable than the AS23.  Would probs be a good idea to test the 24.5 and 23 yourself and make your own determination.  The 23 is a really nice board if you take the time to learn how to balance on it -> so you can put down good solid power consistently.  The 24.5 you can hop right on and go very easy at full power.

My take is that Connor and Kai have alien balance vs my balance is complete average joe crap.  No bs.

  Stability can be hard to define. My 25" 404V3 is the most stable race board Ive owned in flat water. More stable than the vapor, sidewinder or whiplash. It's also tied or very close with the whiplash as the least stable in chop. The Vapor somehow gains stability from rough water, don't ask me to explain why, I can't make sense of it. There are definitely scenarios where i could make the case that any of those four boards would be the best choice over the others.

Try it at 6ft 3 when your centre of gravity is 4 inches higher than evryone else's and people keep telling you a board is stable. I have not ridden the 14 24.5 AS but I have tried the 12'6 version and found it was going to need a lot of work to get used to it. I think I'll wait to see 2018 offerings and then whack an Allison fin system on it........

UKRiverSurfers

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #82 on: April 05, 2017, 01:37:38 AM »
" The Vapor somehow gains stability from rough water, don't ask me to explain why, "

Its because of hull shape mostly. Far more important than width.

As I say a lot - stability or saying a board is stable or not, is not the whole picture. 

You have at least three types of stability that spring to mind and of course these are not all separate but all interlinked as well. So there is no definining line between 'secondary stability' and 'primary stability'. The other stability that folk never mention is 'Directional stability'.....

A board low in secondary stability will get more 'stable' in chop/sea and vice versa...

Primary Stability is best described as - How the craft feels as you get on it. If it feels solid as a rock but less so as you lean it over, that is high primary stability and low secondary.

If it feels wobbly as you get on but less so as you lean it over, thats higher is secondary stability.

Rail shape and volume also plays a huge part - more so than width. 

Generally speaking in other paddle disciplines - high primary stable craft are more for beginners on flat sheltered waters. A craft high in primary stability on the flat will be unpredictable on the chop.

As a simple rule of thumb - Flat bottom usually means high primary and low secondary.

                                       - arched bottom usually means low primary stability and higher secondary.

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warmuth

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #83 on: April 05, 2017, 03:14:53 AM »

Try it at 6ft 3 when your centre of gravity is 4 inches higher than evryone else's and people keep telling you a board is stable. I have not ridden the 14 24.5 AS but I have tried the 12'6 version and found it was going to need a lot of work to get used to it. I think I'll wait to see 2018 offerings and then whack an Allison fin system on it........

  Oh I'm there with you. I'm 6'3, luckily I'm light so I get more leeway but the higher center isn't helping anything.

Rideordie

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #84 on: April 05, 2017, 05:37:41 AM »
Eagle, your comparison just makes logical sense.  The most unstable board that I have ever owned was a 2011 Naish Javelin 14 x 26.25.  It was unstable All the time.  Constant core firing on that board.  Have you tried the SIC FX Pro and how would you rate it as compared to the Allstar 24.5 in different conditions?   
 
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Eagle

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #85 on: April 05, 2017, 08:36:25 AM »
Unfortunately have not tried the FX Pro.  But can say that the sensation of stability is very weird on the AS23 -> different than my other boards.  Kinda like standing on a tightrope where your lower body swings to and fro but your upper body stays stationary.  Am thinking this might help how the pros stay on.  You just feel planted.  Probs took around 3 months before my CNS adapted to the 23.  The more you go out on that board in all conditions the better.  If taking a break for a week or so -> kinda have to relearn and re-ignite my proprioception muscles to balance automatically again.  Good thing is this only takes a few minutes to get back for me.

The 24.5 is a very nice board except for the high cutting boof.  If you do not go upwind or across in high winds -> would get that board over the 25.  Just feels a bit cleaner thru the water vs the 25.  In light winds that 24.5 goes fine.  Here is a quick and rough subjective rating of stability that is kinda close but would personally put the AS24.5 at about 8.5 vs 8.  Out of these 3 boards the AS25 is 10 out of 10 max stable whereas the AS23 is only a 6 ie. about 40% less stable.

1     AS23 -> 6 - 6 - 6 = ave 6
2     AS24.5 -> 8 - 7 - 9 = ave 8
3     AS25 -> 10 - 10 - 10 = ave 10

http://supvelocity.com/race-sup-speed-tests-comparing-the-2016-starboard-all-star-to-the-2017-all-star/
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 08:39:55 AM by Eagle »
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Eagle

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #86 on: April 05, 2017, 09:30:02 AM »
ukgm - sounds like you are a good candidate to add the 4 fin setup on a narrower board like the AS25 for your racing.  Because we do a lot of AW loop paddling for relaxation and fitness - we often go up across and DW.  We need a fin that does well in every condition.  Here I used the small SIC 7.0 which was perfect.  Upwind easy to fight the wind - cross wind no big side push - DW fast and easy to turn to catch swells.  Wind here was about 7 kts upwind with just a hint of whitecaps - current about 2 kts.  Distance 12.2 miles in the ocean.  Tons of reflected chop bouncing off the island.  Near perfect conditions.  Board was the Bullet 14V2 at 27.25" wide.  Fantastic low profile platform for breeze - probs kinds like the Maliko 24 would be.  Here I would not have liked the AS24.5 for the upwind portion.  Oddly my lowish profile AS23 would handle this wind condition no probs.  If you look close -> you can see clearly how the wind and current affected my course.  Side push upwind and DW is always something we have to contend with.  Often paddle like 30-40 strokes on one side and 10 on the other.  Haha!  The fun of paddling.  ;)
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 09:48:15 AM by Eagle »
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burchas

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #87 on: April 05, 2017, 10:16:48 AM »
Rideordie, it's not clear to me what is your biggest concern.
If it's balance, that's a hard thing to crack and even an advise
of an experienced rider with deep understanding of the board
like eagle is limited, especially when he is probably 40-50LBS
lighter than you are.

That said, knowing you are riding the FX pro, I'll find it hard to
believe you'll have any issue with the AS 24.5. there is no radical
change from last year model even with the added volume.

It looks to me your bigger concern is board speed which reminds
me my path to my current Infinity Blackfish 14x24.

I realized that at the prices board makers charge these days I can
get a better board and actually pay less and the board is tailored
exactly for my size and modified to my specs.

I recently compared my Blackfish to the 2016 AS 14x25 and even
at 15 litter less volume there was a nice pickup in speed.
I'm hitting speeds north of 7mph and mind you this board was more
tuned towards dealing with bumps rather than flat water speed.

As for stability, big difference, Blackfish feels far more stable IMO,
especially in cross chop, heavy boat wakes on windy days, even when
I'm wearing my full winter gear at around 190LBS on board.

Now throw-in the Larry Allison 4 fin setup, adding the ventral will
immediately improve your glide and overall speed and stability, and
with the addition of the twins, you can adjust stability to the conditions
you're riding. That's board IQ.

That said, I'm looking forward for the New SIC, it looks like Mark took
notes and is looking for a paradigm change so rather than going with the
new trend, this board seem to have much sharper rails than any AW
board I've seen with a more aggressive nose that I think will translate to
a very fast board in the flats and while an intricate rocker line will
shift the board behavior when dealing with bumps.

There is a lot more going on on the bottom but the most noticeable was
the Larry Allison 4 fins setup...

With Starboard it seems like it's more of the same, still top notch,
just boring to my taste.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 10:22:16 AM by burchas »
in progress...

Rideordie

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #88 on: April 05, 2017, 10:23:00 AM »
Thanks Burchas.  Blackfish is one that I am considering also.  Where did you find this information about a new SIC?  Sounds interesting. 
 
2021 SIC RS 14 x 24.5
Naish Glide 14 (v2)
SIC X-14 SCC  
KeNalu Konihi 95 xTuf(s)
KeNalu Mana 90 100 Flex

burchas

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Re: 2017 Allstar 14 reviews???
« Reply #89 on: April 05, 2017, 10:51:06 AM »
Thanks Burchas.  Blackfish is one that I am considering also.  Where did you find this information about a new SIC?  Sounds interesting.

I can't go into depth about the SIC, but you can catch a good look at the new
board on youtube from the App world tour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quUDfuuZXwI

at about the 6:20 mark. this is one of the prototypes out there,
see the picture below for the same prototype.

There are few more videos from that day that shows the board from all angles. It is already out in the hands of some custom boards clients...just one of the benefits with custom boards.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2017, 10:52:52 AM by burchas »
in progress...

 


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