What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]

[SUP Sports ®]

This entire situation is so strange. The Paris accords are almost meaningless. Reminds me of the old West Wing TV drama where everyone on the team would work their asses off in some crisis, succeed, and then be so smugly happy when to any sane person the "victory" was some pointless paper shuffle. There's a reason all those other countries signed on to the agreement--because they don't have to do anything. Trump can't possibly have a real reason for exiting--it has to be a purely political calculation. I don't get it, but then, I don't get many of the things that the "right" does these days. I understand and appreciate conservative policy, but I don't get any of this mishmash.

This is simple human behavior...and, could be easily modeled, and most likely has, with this president...quite scary, really...
While mostly symbolic, the withdrawal boils down to a much desired victory for Steve Bannon and his nationalist allies in the ongoing, and escalating, West Wing power struggle against the globalists (Tillerson...Ivanka...Kushner...etc...) in Trump's inner circle trying to steer him to a more moderate lane...

This power struggle will come to a head at some point...but, it has to be a dissonant environment in the leaking Trump West Wing ship...;-)

[mjb1959]

so...
it is beyond possibility that this was a campaign promise that he campaigned on?

cuz for me that's how i see it.
hard to understand how people try to make it more than that.
it was not beneficial to the U.S.

[PonoBill]

It's like flag burning--a cheap issue that politicians can make points with at no cost. Personally, some clown burns a flag it makes me proud to be an American. Yes, you can burn our flag. It's a symbol, and the biggest, most important thing that symbol says is that this a country where that is protected speech. I fucking love that. Burn all you want, we'll make more.

Trump, and that total dickhead Bannon will have their day, and then be gone, and the Republic will still be here. How hollow does someone have to be to have their picture taken again and again in a pensive pose? The only thing going through that head is "I know I look so very intelligent right now." No, you don't, you look like Orson Wells with a hangover. This really is a great country.

[Area 10]

Last night there was another terrorist attack in the UK, this time in London (again). Currently the toll stands at seven killed in this van and knife attack, with the three attackers shot dead within *8 minutes* of the first call to the police. 12 arrests have so far been made.

My request to those of you on this forum who have been expressing opinions about Islam without any direct contact with Muslims, is to listen to what the ordinary folk of the Muslim community themselves have to say, and the debates that they are having. This clip is from the people of Manchester following the very recent attack at the concert of a US pop singer. No doubt however similar interviews will appear soon with the Muslims of London. I have a lot of day-to-day contact with UK Muslims, and the spectrum of these views seems pretty typical to me.

[mjb1959]

talk is cheap,
what are there actions?
how many of them reported these extremists from last night to authorities?
did any of them actually approach these radicals and tell them how wrong they are?`

[Area 10]

talk is cheap,
what are there actions?
how many of them reported these extremists from last night to authorities?
did any of them actually approach these radicals and tell them how wrong they are?`

Yes, they are doing all of these things. This is partly how the police are managing to prevent so many more times as many attacks as are occurring.

But the point about responsibility is important here too. Consider this quote:

"Though terrorism perpetrated by Muslims receives a disproportionate amount of attention from politicians and reporters, the reality is that right-wing extremists pose a much greater threat to people in the United States than terrorists connected to ISIS or similar organizations. As UNC Professor Charles Kurzman and Duke Professor David Schanzer explained last June in the New York Times, Islam-inspired terror attacks "accounted for 50 fatalities over the past 13 and a half years." Meanwhile, "right-wing extremists averaged 337 attacks per year in the decade after 9/11, causing a total of 254 fatalities."

Which is from this article: https://thinkprogress.org/you-are-more-than-7-times-as-likely-to-be-killed-by-a-right-wing-extremist-than-by-muslim-terrorists-417f3c3461db

I don't know how accurate these figures are, but as a person who is clearly of strong right-wing views himself, how much responsibility do you feel for seeking out and reporting violent right-wing extremists to the security services? You've got to be careful not to be hypocritical here.

Incidentally, in a country where only specialist police carry firearms, and carrying guns by members of the public is illegal, to have the three terrorists shot dead inside 8 minutes of first report in a city as big and congested as London (it is the biggest city in the European Union) is pretty good, I thought. They will have saved a lot of lives by responding so quickly.

[mjb1959]

pretty much have to throw this report out,
"On June 12, 2016, Omar Mateen, a 29-year-old security guard, killed 49 people and wounded 53 others in a terrorist attack/hate crime inside Pulse, a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida, United States"
that is just 1 attack...

[Area 10]

As I understand it, Omar Mateen's attack more likely had little to do with terrorism, and was instead just a hate crime that IS claimed responsibility for.



Not every attack by some prejudiced nutter with a gun is a terrorist attack.

Meanwhile, Trump does a good impression of a cowardly islamophobic lying opportunistic troll while attacking and misrepresenting the views of the (first Muslim) mayor of London, in relation to last night's terrorist atrocity (in which people of many nationalities and religions were caught up).

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/donald-trump-uses-london-terror-10557760

He really is doing the reputation of the US overseas no favours at all. People see him and think that all US citizens like him. After all, a head of state is a representative as well as a leader. I'm lucky to have valued US colleagues so I know that you aren't all like Trump.

[mjb1959]

you leftists are really talented name-callers, i have to give you that.

[Area 10]

you leftists are really talented name-callers, i have to give you that.

Thank you my friend. I notice that you aren't arguing with any of those epithets though

[mjb1959]

no,
i will continue to discuss this in channels where the people in the discussion are rational.
Do you remember the time you changed a stranger’s political opinion on the Internet by using your logic and your accurate data?
this doesn't seem possible in this case, people either understand why President Trump is president or they don't, you and your friends don't...
hope you remain safe on your side of the pond.

paddle on

[mjb1959]

http://blog.dilbert.com/?utm_source=&utm_medium=site&utm_campaign=brand-engagement&utm_content=navigation

this man presents some interesting thoughts, might be worth reading...

[yugi]

Trump misunderstood MIT climate research, university officials say
   http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-climatechange-trump-mit-idUSKBN18S6L0

Some interesting views on current climate events  (30 mins):
   

[PonoBill]

So here's the thing--he isn't wrong. The Paris Accords are bullshit. They will do next to nothing. All these politicians jumping on the bandwagon, making anti-trump, pro accord statements will NEVER have to do a thing. It's 99.99% horseshit. And it remains a piece of economic warfare. Not much has changed. So why all the noise? Because it's a cheap and popular thing--all a politician has to  say is "we will carry on without the USA" and you're gold. Which means "we won't do a thing, but damn we look good."

the English section is 25 pages. Here you go.  https://treaties.un.org/doc/Treaties/2016/02/20160215%2006-03%20PM/Ch_XXVII-7-d.pdf  Read it like I did--print it out, sit there with a pencil, and write down anything you think will actually have any effect and what it's value is. I found three things, and the value was minimal. You could treat it like beer pong.

If you haven't read it, or at least read an abstract not written by some whackdoodle, then your opinion on this has about the same validity as Trump's--as insubstantial as a popcorn fart.

[Bean]

...Read it like I did...

I tried, but I keep moving my lips and speaking aloud...

So, what is Trumps end game on this issue?  Was it just low hanging fruit on the list of campaign promises?  I would not hazard a guess at this point.  And maybe that is the point, utter unpredictability.