PFD's Questions????

[Eagle]

Also for me - no problem hopping back on a board with a full PFD - Orbit or others.  But if so - then maybe the impact float or surfski type might be easier and a better solution.  Provided a waist inflatable is added.

According to the water temps and survival time chart for hypothermia - have about an hour before exhaustion or unconsciousness round these parts summer or winter.  And are expected to survive from 1 to 4 hours max.  But most that drown seem to go under in a minute or two without any float or swimming ability based on the news reports.  And swimming in cold water vs warm is completely different.  Many here that swim any distance wear a swim wetsuit even in the summer.

Surf vs DW vs AW seem to require slightly different requirements.  And as long as you recognize the pros and cons and risks of each - you can at least make an informed decision.  Everybody has their own best solution and risk tolerance level - and that is perfectly ok.

[mrbig]

Aha! I now understand all the issues about difficulty getting back on a board with a PFD. It's a DW thing. Never had a problem in crazy conditions, but B-I-G doesn't know squat about DW. Boatwakes, Seaplane take-offs, voodoo chop yes! If I couldn't get back on after falling...ROTFLMAO!

[pdxmike]

There's such a range of conditions people paddle in, let alone other factors--how far from shore, experience, alone or in a group...Yet the pfd that will meet the regulations for someone paddling alone in heavy waves in January in Lake Superior is the same one that you're required to carry paddling 10 feet from shore in 3' deep water on a quiet warm lake in summer in a group at a beach with a lifeguard.

This isn't anti-pfd.  People who give examples of cases where it would be foolish to paddle without wearing a full, non-inflatable pfd are correct.  But when I read those, I think of the contrast between that, and me paddling with my swimming friends, all with leashes, 100' from shore in the warm Willamette--the same place one of us just completed a 12-mile swim.  And apart from me (who swims mile butterfly for fun) she was the worst swimmer among us.

It seems there'd be greater safety created by relaxing pfd regulations, since many conditions/situations don't require the full flotation of the pfds that are currently legal.  I'd rather see someone with something that works well for their situation, and provides some safety, rather than the current situation where people choose to skip the pfd altogether, or just strap it to their board.   I think we'd see companies coming out with a lot more good flotation options if the regulations relaxed so that those could meet the standards, because that would mean a lot more potential customers.  Right now, not many people are going to buy a flotation device that doesn't keep them from getting fined.  The only reason impact vests are available is because they already have a market among surfers, who aren't required to wear pfds.  And I agree, impact vests are a terrible choice for someone who wants to be legal, but can be a great flotation option for others in the right situation.

[Eagle]

Aha! I now understand all the issues about difficulty getting back on a board with a PFD. It's a DW thing. Never had a problem in crazy conditions, but B-I-G doesn't know squat about DW. Boatwakes, Seaplane take-offs, voodoo chop yes! If I couldn't get back on after falling...ROTFLMAO!

Most certainly if one has difficulty getting back on with a full PFD - that is a big problem that should be addressed.  Everyone should be able to get back on their board with a full PFD without too much difficulty.

We have 2 basic options for AW and DW.  Inflatable waist or harness for docile conditions - and full PFD for rough adverse.  Works a charm for our situation.  But a strong leash is always the constant for us in the ocean.

Strapping a PFD to a board and not using a leash often happens.  And is ok sometimes for those that stay within 100m from shore in calm conditions and can swim.

As well using an impact or surfski one is ok - if that is better for that specific person and use.  But saying one system is better than another because it is better for you and others - is very questionable.  Only you know what works best for you - for your specific circumstances.

[coldsup]

I can get back on my board with a full PFD on but it's certainly not as easy....I have to really pull up and on...rather than sliding on easy.

Maybe it is the PFD being bulkier than I imagine or maybe my belly needs some loss! Maybe need to try a diff one.

But, Oneil comp vest and the mrk2 MTI waist belt seems pretty good just now...just enough float to make a difference and give protection...and the waist belt if things go really really bad....there's no swimming in that thing.

[Area 10]

O'Neill Gooru vest.  I wear mine in the surf 100% of time under wetsuit

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00QLN1L4O/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1472660936&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=gooru+vest

BUY A GOORU

Have you tried swimming any distance in these pfds? The shortcoming of some of these PFDs is that it is pretty much impossible to do so. So it will keep you afloat for sure, but you aren't going anywhere. . . . .

BUY A GOORU

I've had several opportunities to try and swim wearing a USCG approved PFD and an impact vest; the impact vest is far easier to swim while wearing. . . . .

BUY A GOORU

There are people on this forum that know their stuff.  I don't want to be a d-ck but everyone's opinion is not equal.  Area10 has been around and while we have disagreed HE KNOWS HIS STUFF.  SUPSPORTS and I have disagreed on fins, but HE KNOWS HIS STUFF. 

Having been SUP surfing for 7 years and survived conditions that would have killed a bunch of people, and watched some guys at Mavericks survive absolutely horrific, deadly stuff I have concluded you want to FLOAT.  . . . AT ALL TIMES.  I have chosen to wear the Gooru vest all the times, it is on, it works it doesn't require CO2 and it is NOT coast guard approved.  I have surfed with it over 500 hundred times and when the waves have gone over 20 feet I have added another life jacket on top of it.

I have broken ribs and fallen in the water and thought "Well this is going to suck but at least I will not drown.  When I hit the beach it's really going to hurt . . ."  I have broken leashes and paddled 500 yards.  I do not downwind so I haven't paddled for 2 miles but I imagine it would be possible with the Gooru under my wetsuit.  For $80 to $120 it might just save your life.  Probably not (because those of us reading this will not be the next mom that drowns in Colorado, or dude in the Gorge because we didn't wear a PFD), but the added amount of courage will push your further, make you a better SUP'er and lead to better posts on this forum.  So paddle on.

Yeah I agree, and I use a Gooru too. I went through a few other impact vests before, but the Gooru is the best all-round solution so far for my particułar situations - mainly offshore downwinders in the sea and surf breaks 0.5-1.5 miles offshore.

Would the inflatable vests big wave riders use provide any useful advance on an impact vest/pfd for SUPers in a tricky situation? (At least for those of us who routinely wear wetsuits.) I've never tried one so have no idea what they give you other than getting you to the surface quicker. Can you swim in them?

[Ichabod Spoonbill]

I'm surprised there hasn't been more creativity with PFD designs. This is a pretty common issue, and the truth is nobody really likes wearing PFDs. Why haven't people come up with some spiffy designs you might want to wear?

[Eagle]

A number of manufacturers have come out with SUP specific PFDs.  And the one we like - since it is both USCG and TC approved is the Orbit.  It takes a minimalistic approach with small area - but has a bit of bulk.  Every design has pros and cons.  But many choices actually now for paddlers in the States - but not for Canada.

[zachhandler]

I think all surfski paddlers must smile when they hear people complaining about how hard it is to remount a SUP with a PFD. A surfski s 17" wide with a round hull and the cockpit rim is about 12" off the water. You have to get up and over, flip onto your back, rotate 90 degrees, and not let the log roll while you are doing it. Add a bulky pfd with a vhf radio in the front pocket and big breaking waves, and it Is obvious that it is a skill that has to be learned and practiced. But once the skill is mastered it is trivial and done without thought even in big seas.

I think practice is the big difference. When you learn to paddle a ski you practice the hell out of remounts on flat water and then in big water too, because your life will depend on it someday. Practice works.

If getting on a SUP with a PFD is hard then the simple solution is to practice with a PFD. 10 remounts from each side every time you paddle will build stength and muscle memory fast.

[PonoBill]

It's well and good to talk about how great your skills are at remounting your board, surfski, OC1, or whatever, but beginners aren't mastering that black art. If you don't have difficulting getting back on your board with a full PFD, congrats, but watch someone try it  with just a few session under their belt, or with an inflatable--not pretty. Those, by the way, are the bulk of the people dying. 

[Eagle]

Probs depends on the person.  But practicing is a good idea then like zach suggests.  Getting in surfski is much harder than just slithering back on a SUP.

[pdxmike]

I'd guess quite a few SUP drowning victims died long before the 10th time they ever fell in, and many probably died the first time they fell. 


I also bet that quite a few beginners couldn't make it through a session of practicing falling in 10 times and climbing back on their boards.  So that actually isn't just a great idea for practicing, it also might not be a bad screening test--if you can't do ten, you shouldn't paddle in any situation where your safety relies on you getting back up, and if you can't do at least a few, you probably shouldn't be paddling yet, period.

[Area 10]

This is an important discussion. I was surprised at how hard it was to get back on my Naish 17fter in 30 knots with a full pfd on, that had a PLB etc stuffed in the front pockets. The safety equipment was making me unsafe! The very definition of irony (take note, Alanis Morissette).

It might be an argument for a waist-belt type pfd - at least in flat water. But has anyone tried getting back on a board wearing one when it is inflated? Does it get in the way like a normal full pfd does?

What I'd really like is an impact vest like the Gooru that has a bladder that you can inflate yourself if you need to to turn it into a full pfd. Best of both worlds, perhaps. Does anyone make such a thing?

[yugi]

I'm an impact vest or Restube kind of guy.

Neither is officially approved but they don't get in the way of action or getting back on board and don't make you look stupid.

I get controlled by law enforcement over a dozen times a year that I'm respecting mandatory pdf laws and both have always been satisfactory. I believe function is more important than certification and I'm glad law enforcement tends to also be pragmatic.

I wear a leash anyway.

[Area 10]

Btw, board design is an important factor in these kinds of survival situations. Ask a beginner to get back on (or perhaps it should be in) a Starboard Ace while wearing a typical design full pfd and you will see what I mean.