Author Topic: What's the best weed fin?  (Read 13670 times)

SUP Sports ®

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2016, 10:39:26 AM »
Badger, which fin box design do you have, US Standard or US Surf?

Not sure I know the difference. Can't find any info on Google.

It's the standard Futures type box.  What's the US Surf?

I've never heard the Euro box fins referred to as "US Standard"...IMO, they are not standard at all in the US for most US domestic board builders...;-)
The Futures box (US box) which I design my fins around is for fins with 9mm thickness...the Euro box fins use 9.6mm thickness and do have the offset for the greater depth of the box...

On another note...
We do also have Eel Grass here in Santa Barbara...my FreeWeeds have been tested extensively in it...standup paddling...paddlesurfing...& windsurfing...they have also been tested at a particularly notorious spot down in the Baja that becomes fully plugged with it in the Summertime...especially, at lower tides...
Mahalos...{:~)

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Bean

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2016, 11:09:18 AM »
I've never heard the Euro box fins referred to as "US Standard"...IMO, they are not standard at all in the US for most US domestic board builders...;-)

German Democratic Republic didn't make sense either...hey work with me here. ;D 

mrbig

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2016, 11:16:55 AM »
Exocet said U.S. box..They lied, or perhaps, they were mispoken..U.S. box from "Somewhere in France"..
Let it come to you..
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Bean

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2016, 11:28:13 AM »
Sa·cré bleu!

SUP Sports ®

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2016, 11:37:54 AM »
I used to manufacture G-10 fins for the E-box...I still have a quiver of Exocet waveboards with those fins...
Designed in France...built at Cobra...

There used to also be an issue with the Tuttle box fins back before US sailboard manufacturers became extinct...
Larry Tuttle developed the base format here in the US...then, it was knocked off overseas...
The Cobra factory version was slightly different...we called it "CT" for Cobra Tuttle...;-)

Folks need to be careful not to use deeper base fins in shallow boxes...or, too long of fin tab screws...especially, with 2 piece US boxes...
We discovered a leaky fin box issue when I first started working with Joe Bark back in the day when he was using them...
Mahalos...{:~)

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mrbig

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2016, 11:46:08 AM »
Too funny Warren. In my experiments to get the Kai Lenny to fit I discovered shorter screws had to be used or mayhem would result..
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LeeBee

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2016, 06:28:56 PM »
Take a look at the BlackBox Surf site. They have a fin that got very good reviews re. speed and has a very good rake angle for weeds. They make it in two sizes. It is listed a very good price and can say the smaller sized model (orange) which I bought is nicely shaped.
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baddog

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2016, 10:44:26 PM »
Badger, which fin box design do you have, US Standard or US Surf?

The Bahne Box aka Fins Unlimited / Futures / American / US Surf / etc. is the STANDARD for surfboards and most non-windsurfing SUP brands like Bark, SIC and Sunova.

The US Box is a windsurfing box which I believe was originally the Chinook Box and/or A Box and used by the majors, all of who came from windsurfing; Starboard, Naish, Fanatic, etc.  Why it's US Box now and fins can be list as US Box and/or A Box is some irrelevant windsurfing mystery.

The US Box is deeper and wider vs the thinner and shallower Bahne Box.

The Bahne Box fin has a 9mm base width that is shallower and has a higher pin position.



The US Box fin has a 9.2mm base width that is deeper with a tab and has a lower pin position.



Although Standard Bahne Box fins fit into an US Box, they fit too low in the box and are generally loose and wiggly around.  You get lucky occasionally, but there are a few sure fire fins that always fit tight; the FCS IIs!

No reason ever to fit a US Box fin into a Bahne Box.  For a proper fit, the base needs to be ground down and the pin relocated.  Besides, the G10 fins are heavy, overkill for SUP speeds, over priced and designed mostly off old windsurfing fins.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2016, 10:54:16 PM by baddog »

Area 10

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2016, 11:15:30 PM »
Thats a great explanation baddog, thanks very much.

Buying a fin with a Chinook/windsurf fitting when your board has a surfboard fitting leads to a world of pain. I bought a Black Project Maliko downwind fin that BP told me would be great for my SIC Bullet. Build it had a windsurf fitting and the SICs use surfboard boxes. I had to spend 2 hours grinding away at a G10 fin to get it to fit. And then the heaviness of the G10 material unbalanced the board when I was carrying it.

You can't always tell what box you are going to find in a board though. Gong use (or used to use) a Chinook/Windsurf type box yet it isn't a windsurf brand.

In general the whole situation is a mess, and it's a total PITA, especially if like me you have multiple boards from different manufacturers and like to experiment with fins. I pretty much end up customising a set of fins for every board I have. The situation is made worse by the fact that the tolerances of the boxes change slightly when they are fitted due to expansion etc of materials. So you can have two boards from the same brand but which won't take the same fins unless eg. you are willing to have the fin wobbly in one and needing a mallet to fit it in another.

Quickbeam

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2016, 11:45:19 PM »
Take a look at the BlackBox Surf site. They have a fin that got very good reviews re. speed and has a very good rake angle for weeds. They make it in two sizes. It is listed a very good price and can say the smaller sized model (orange) which I bought is nicely shaped.


Hey LeeBee,

I’m curious which Blkbox fin you have? I went on their website and they list two different fins, each one in two different sizes. They have the Custom Race fin by Larry Allison and the Custom Race fin from Futures, both of which come in either 6.5” or 8”. Which one is it you have? Was also wondering if you knew where the reviews were? I did  a quick search but couldn’t find anything. On the Blkbox website they have the same quote from Gary Stone from Paddleboard Specialists for each fin, but I couldn’t find anything else. Are there any other reviews you’re aware of? Anything else you can tell me about your fin?

Thanks for any information you might have.
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Bean

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2016, 03:57:30 AM »
Semantics aside, as long as we know that there are more than one longboard style box in use by the major manufactures.   Easy enough to know what you have by simply looking at your fin base.

Black Project is one of the very few fin companies that actually offer their fins with the two specific bases.  I got interested in this thread because of my interest in their fins.  Area 10, I bet they would exchange that fin for you.

I'm with QB on the Blackbox fins, and would also like to see the one LeeBee is talking about.

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2016, 05:38:49 AM »
Great information. Just for fun went to the new improved MFC website and observed that their fins fit U.S. Box. The hump was still on the fin base, however!

I know from painful experience how much work it is to grind to fit. And you will need a rubber mallet..

Detailed factual information such as was uncovered in this thread is what makes the zone such a great place.
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Larry Allison

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2016, 11:48:05 AM »
Interesting Thread here which I have been getting PM's to share in. I have been watching this thread and noticed alot of good info along with bad smoke and mirrors info as well. Hope you don't mind if I speak honestly which may offend some of the promoter guys, but I am more concerned about the people who spend their hard earned dollars to understand and get the most for their money which is one of the great things I love about the Standup Zone. Alot going on in this thread which makes it confusing, so I will star with the title "Weed Fin".

In the mid 80's I was lucky to spend time in Corpus Kristy and South Padre Texas doing Windsurf shows and Windsurfing with surf. In understanding Eelgrass, it's like speghetti it wraps around the fin. I designed a fin called the Ninja Race Weed, like the pic below with a 35 degree leading edge to allow the eelgrass to slide off at high speeds. What people are not aware of, is that at 15 to 25 miles a hour speed on water your fin creates a vacuum that causes the Eelgrass to stick at the leading edge of your fin 2 to 3 inches off the base, like the chart with the red lines acting as Eelgrass shows. What I was not aware of till recently is that if your Sup fin with a large tip area over hang off the trailing edge along with a angle of 50 degrees or greater. Eelgrass will stick and wrap around the curve in the trailing edge like the Gladiator type design which Red line Eelgrass shows below. I never experienced this before because I only produce Fiberglass fins where the tip taper foil along with the "S" flex twisting off releases the Eelgrass most of the time. But now in seeing my same designed made by someone else overseas in todays low cost cookie cutter technology of Honeycomb, the fin flex's laterally from tip to base acting like a hook in the tip catching the Eelgrass. This Honeycomb structure also effects the projection of the same fin plan shape compared to Fiberglass which is the best projection twang over the mussy feel of Honeycomb.

All my Sup designs have a leading edge sweep of 40 degrees or less which is why they all go thru Kelp and Eelgrass. I found back in 2007 when I was first paddling with a Noserider fin that the Ninja Weed Fin  made me aware of this for tracking and stability. The Chart below shows the Leading edge Rake of a surf fin compared to my Sup Fins. Even my surf Sup fins start at 40 degrees to 45 degrees like the Moray fin which is the middle fin in the chart below.

Larry Allison

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #43 on: April 13, 2016, 12:21:49 PM »
Take a look at the BlackBox Surf site. They have a fin that got very good reviews re. speed and has a very good rake angle for weeds. They make it in two sizes. It is listed a very good price and can say the smaller sized model (orange) which I bought is nicely shaped.

Yes LeeBee, I find it interesting and I guess Flattering when people use your design as a starting point but claim design rights and forgets the history behind the fin along with the developing time that was put into the fin years ago. Not to mention then having the same fin made in a Honeycomb structure which kills the design function of the fiberglass function. LeeBee would explain why my name is on the fin my friend along with the good reviews. Here are some pics showing the transformation from Ninja Race to Stealth Ninja to a rounded tip Stealth Ninja which is now a Blk Box in Blue down to a curved tip to call it surf blk box orange. 

Larry Allison

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Re: What's the best weed fin?
« Reply #44 on: April 13, 2016, 02:27:16 PM »
Take a look at the BlackBox Surf site. They have a fin that got very good reviews re. speed and has a very good rake angle for weeds. They make it in two sizes. It is listed a very good price and can say the smaller sized model (orange) which I bought is nicely shaped.


Hey LeeBee,

I’m curious which Blkbox fin you have? I went on their website and they list two different fins, each one in two different sizes. They have the Custom Race fin by Larry Allison and the Custom Race fin from Futures, both of which come in either 6.5” or 8”. Which one is it you have? Was also wondering if you knew where the reviews were? I did  a quick search but couldn’t find anything. On the Blkbox website they have the same quote from Gary Stone from Paddleboard Specialists for each fin, but I couldn’t find anything else. Are there any other reviews you’re aware of? Anything else you can tell me about your fin?

Thanks for any information you might have.

Opps, Sorry Quickbeam I meant to copy you with LeeBee! Mahalo,Larry