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Are zero-fetch DWD's more fun????

Started by peterp, August 16, 2013, 09:49:00 AM

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peterp

Just come in from a reverse Millers run in Cape Town for the first time - reverse meaning we normally do them in our S-SE trades in summer but here in winter the NW is predominant.

In S-SE its has fetch stretching as far as the wind blows South of Cape Point, and brings in wind swell in a similar manner to the Maliko run.

In NW you start in Fish Hoek with straight off-shore wind meaning no runs for the first 2-300m but then it just starts building and gets more and more classic as you go along. This is exactly the same set-up we have in Table Bay with the Milnerton - Big Bay run in the summer SE.

Wind was howling - at times more than 40knots with flying water, runs weren't huge but they were steep and you could stay on for prolonged rides. My km times were ave. 4min 30secs which is about 30secs quicker than what I was averaging on the good days on the Maliko run (using same 14 Glide GX).

In terms of actual downwinding I'd say I almost prefer this type of downwinding which I'm now dubbing "zero-fetch dwds". They are just a hoot as you can link runs, jump runs and you are constantly going. I'm guessing they are very similar to what DJ has in Melbourne and what you get in the Gorge.

Water was 12deg and air was 15deg with the odd rain squall - so give me Maliko any day on that account......but home is not too bad!

MaineSUP

Peterp, I've been thinking the same thing. Here in Maine I've found that the DWers we do with wind coming from the open ocean things tend to get messy and while the swells are big they are tough to catch compared to the few DWers I've done which start with little or no fetch.  Smaller cleaner waves and better rides.   I haven't done a lot of DWers and so it may be a function of experience as well.
Coreban Dart 14'
SIC Bullet 14 V2
Sunova Speeed 9'2"
Red Sport 12'6"

headmount

On Maui we have the same exact thing with our run on the southshore that begins in the apex of Maalaea Bay.  Starts out like a billiard table with little ball bearings and becomes glide-able in about 4 minutes and full fledged glides in about 10 minutes.  It's the smoothest gliding possible since there aren't conflicting and crossing swells.  It's my favorite despite the much higher shark attack rate and the possibility if wind switch.

Most challenging is Maliko in our N hemi winter.

Cool to see you've found the same thing where you live.

covesurfer

The southside run on Maui is the most groomed, sweetest paddling on a downwinder that I think I've experienced. I've only done it a few times but I'm looking forward to the next one, that's for sure. Like HM describes, it's just tiny at the start but in no time at all, you're on small bumps and shortly after that, you're getting these lined up, un-crossed, beautiful glides. I found the southside really unique and really nice.

The Gorge on west wind can have significant fetch (not like the ocean of course) but there is no angling ground swell. Everything lines up pretty nice between wind and swell direction. Still, for whatever reason, crossed up swell is not uncommon. Maybe it's the strong currents and corresponding eddies that affect the swell. On east winds, which are more common in Fall and Winter, you can actually get the 'zero fetch' kind of conditions. One thing about the Gorge, the swell is always pretty steep and relatively close together.

Maybe it's the transition from wavelets to swells that makes these kind of runs so much fun but it must also be that you get really lined up conditions too. It's kind of like the equivalent of a perfect corduroy day on skis.

PonoBill

Maliko runs can be VERY lined up, or VERY not. It depends on Neptunes mood. Maliko has a few thousand miles of fetch, so the days when whatever is coming has had a lot of time to clean up it's like the best clean surf swell you've ever seen. And then there's the days when there seems to be waves coming from every possible direction. Still fun, just a lot more intense. The really rasty ones are clean windswell from behind and clean, big groundswell from the North. Those days you getter have your game face on and your Karma in line, because anything can happen. Dropping into a 15 foot windswell and finding a ten foot groundswell crossing in the bottom will give anyone religion. "Oh Lord, if you just let me make this one..."

Southside is amazing when it's really howling. Little wavelets at the boardwalk with 40 knots of wind up your butt, and it gets faces very fast. By the time you pass Kalama Park you can be in waist high swell, and it's bound to be clean because there's nowhere else for the swell to come from but behind you. Easy money. Especially with a rudder board so you don't take the detour through Papeete
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

JF808

Big island westside is all Localized wind fetch... we start with no influence from ground swells, and just like Maui's south shore, bumps progressivly get taller with distance into the run, making for short period wind swells which are steeper then the north shore stuff.  I agree, the short period stuff is a lot easier to get onto compared to the longer period stuff.  With that said it really take a lot of wind to get a good downwinder going here.  For us 30+ is a GOOD day, 40+ which might occur less then a handfull of days a year, is EPIC!!

Now something with influence from a ground swell requires much less wind to produce good downwind conditions.  Those places 20-25 is good, 30 is howling conditions.

I dont think DJ's downwind location is strictly localized windfetch, because in his videos even on those smaller light days, I dont really see all that much white caps, but I can tell there is wind, and he's moving on swells pretty good, this tells me there must be some sort of ground swell there.

DavidJohn

#6
Quote from: JF808 on August 25, 2013, 11:41:31 AM


I dont think DJ's downwind location is strictly localized windfetch, because in his videos even on those smaller light days, I dont really see all that much white caps, but I can tell there is wind, and he's moving on swells pretty good, this tells me there must be some sort of ground swell there.


There's zero ground swell in my vids.. Our Port Phillip Bay is like a giant lake with a very narrow opening to the ocean in the far south of the bay.. My vids are in the far north with wind coming straight off the land.

I agree about the zero fetch making for better downwinders.. There's plenty of places that we can do downwinders with more fetch and they are ok but they are also hard work.. Very hard work.. If I only downwinded in those conditions I'd only be using boards like the F16 and bigger Bullets.. Having zero fetch lets you use 12'6" and 14' boards with ease.

DJ

Rob

Was a great run for sure.  Made all the better with a bit of swell running against the wind. 

Hope we get to go many more of these Pete! Winter just got a whole lot better in Cape Town!

Short video from Tuesday here ::
SIC Dude
Cape Town, South Africa

JF808

Quote from: DavidJohn on August 27, 2013, 07:30:41 AM
Quote from: JF808 on August 25, 2013, 11:41:31 AM


I dont think DJ's downwind location is strictly localized windfetch, because in his videos even on those smaller light days, I dont really see all that much white caps, but I can tell there is wind, and he's moving on swells pretty good, this tells me there must be some sort of ground swell there.


There's zero ground swell in my vids.. Our Port Phillip Bay is like a giant lake with a very narrow opening to the ocean in the far south of the bay.. My vids are in the far north with wind coming straight off the land.

I agree about the zero fetch making for better downwinders.. There's plenty of places that we can do downwinders with more fetch and they are ok but they are also hard work.. Very hard work.. If I only downwinded in those conditions I'd only be using boards like the F16 and bigger Bullets.. Having zero fetch lets you use 12'6" and 14' boards with ease.

DJ

really? well there you have it.  what is the water depth in that bay?  you must have some ripping wind speeds

supmate

If I may comment, although I don't often do downwinders I have done two different zero fetch and one in the lake is unreal at around 13 km long and its quite shallow, but the one I do across a deeper body of water is under 5km long and you get cross chop rebounding from the shore line and quite frankly it sucks in comparison, so IMO you want a nice relatively shallow body of water at least 10km long or more for ideal zero fetch conditions, stay away from short deep water with much shoreline acting to refract swell IMHO.


peterp

Quote from: supmate on August 31, 2013, 12:19:47 AM
If I may comment, although I don't often do downwinders I have done two different zero fetch and one in the lake is unreal at around 13 km long and its quite shallow, but the one I do across a deeper body of water is under 5km long and you get cross chop rebounding from the shore line and quite frankly it sucks in comparison, so IMO you want a nice relatively shallow body of water at least 10km long or more for ideal zero fetch conditions, stay away from short deep water with much shoreline acting to refract swell IMHO.


Refraction can kill any good downwind run, whether zero-fetch or open ocean - finish of M2O is refraction hell (but it builds character).

Our Milnerton - Big Bay run suffers from refraction on the last 3km's - more so when swell is running. First year I'd come to a standstill there but now I've slowly learnt that you can find runs which makes it more bearable.

Maliko strangely enough doesn't suffer too much from refraction unless wind is very Northerly - and then only in last couple of km's - perhaps the reefs absorb the swells instead of sending them back out.

Pierre

my feeling is that short fetch DWs are more fun with a short board ie a 12'6", especially if a current runs against wind... in that case a UL will be too long for wavelength!!!  medium fetch fits better to a shorter board also if wind force not so strong. open ocean fetch generate long runners and a UL is more adapted. in that case refraction, and other interferences near coast can generate big mess... topic about depth and wavelength is to read again... look in thread:      http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php?topic=19245.msg188684;topicseen#msg188684
\HF/- Hi-Fun Hydroworks / custom boards,BZH, since 1982  /  *Link Removed*

Bean

Quote from: peterp on August 31, 2013, 06:52:57 AM
Maliko strangely enough doesn't suffer too much from refraction unless wind is very Northerly - and then only in last couple of km's - perhaps the reefs absorb the swells instead of sending them back out.

My understanding is that wave-refraction is when the swell is affected by the bottom and bends into the shoreline while wave-reflection is when the swell bounces off objects like the natural shoreline or bulkheads and rebounds back into the open water.

The Jersey Shore is a great example of refraction.  The shoreline runs pretty much north/south.  We can have seemingly idylic downwind conditions, both wind and swell out of the South.  But, closer to the shoreline refraction bends the waves into an on-shore direction due to our very gradual bottom contour.  On a larger swell, we have to get pretty far off shore to truly take advantage of a South wind/swell combination.  So unless we want to get miles offshore the key is to get in on this pattern pretty early.

Rob

Another video from the other day's "Reverse" Millers run.



;D
SIC Dude
Cape Town, South Africa

BigFella

A long, long time ago I scared myself in my Haines Hunter 15' centre console off Point Perpendicular, the north head of Jervis Bay. I was fishing, trolling for little tuna hoping for a big one, heading SSE straight into the SSE 30 knot breeze, but with a strong current from the north. Just cruising', my boat and me. Yes, alone, yes, had EPIRB, yes, checked in with Coastguard. No, not wearing jacket.

After a while I figgered I had to go home, and turned 180 degrees. Holy shit. For the next 90 minutes or so I was full throttle up the waves, pulling reverse to not nosedive into the next trough, wave after wave after wave.

I was regretting not having the life jacket on (I had no time to grab it - it was a full time job to keep the boat afloat) - and I was regretting having a centre console. It wouldn't have been so scary with a covered bow! And I wouldn't have had time to grab the EPIRB either.

But ever nice I started reading about downwinders I've been thinking about those waves!

One day we have to do them - strong NNW current, strong SSE breeze - and some solid backup craft.

Can you imagine what you could do with waves like that on a SUP, that I had to pull reverse down each one if them???


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