Any production board faster than a K15 in flat water?

[peterp]

It's not progress - because event organisers have been hell-bent on supporting 12'6 and 14' classes - supposedly due to demand from owners of those types of boards. Self-reinforcing - chicken and egg situation...

Provided the 18 LE is quick in the flats it could change and stimulate some demand for faster boards provided they are allowed to race.

[Area 10]

my fault...evidently im proud & i think this could be a faster board. if i could remove my post... i would. didnt mean to offend and sorry i didnt provide an answer for your question.

Hey - don't worry about it, NXLVL. I was actually pretty interested to learn that another board manufacturer is pushing the envelope, and it would take a helluva lot more than that to offend me! Nice pics too.

I guess the obvious point to make is however that the manufacturers are going to ever more ridiculous lengths to make a 14ft board fast (e.g. making them so narrow that most people can't use them), when all they really need to do is make them longer. The K15 is stable enough for ANY size of rider, and people could probably race with their dog on board as well and still be competitive with their peers on 14ft boards. Crazy.

There is obviously a synergy here with another thread on the Zone at the moment, and it's great to know (peterp) that other people are thinking along these lines too.

Incidentally, I've just been told that that the 2012 K15 was approximately 18.5kg for the Glass Epoxy and 14.5kg for the carbon. 18.5kg = almost 41lbs (!). So you would think that Starboard would want to do something about that. But the 2013 models will apparently be a little heavier because of the additional PVC layer, although this is only a couple hundred grams and will make the board tougher.

At this rate, Starboard will be able to claim that not only does it manufacture (at present) the fastest flat water board, but also the heaviest... isn't that fun - that the fastest board you can buy off the shelf is also the heaviest? So much for the relative importance of weight to speed (at least over distance and in flat water - no-one is going to claim that the K15 is an ideal short sprint board, I suspect).

[UKRiverSurfers]

It would be good to see a tougher K15!

[GlideMarko]

maybe Ohana 18'6'' unlimited racer

http://www.ohanapaddleboards.com/18-ft-6-in-unlimited-racer/

[UKRiverSurfers]

I want one

[upwinder]

the K15 ... a great big guy race board.

?? I'll have a pint of what Area 10's been drinking thanks  

at only 228 litres and with four big holes in it's bottom this would depend very much on what you call 'big'. I had the use of an epoxy K15 for about a month last year and at 120kegs the cockpit would fill up with water standing still and only drain when I was really up and moving. Sure it was pretty slick in perfect glass or a tiny ripple but it was a bloody hard work in anything else (especially with a dozen or so litres of sea water sloshing around in it). And with no handles and 40+ lbs it was a pig to carry and load/unload at the car. It wouldn't be this "big boy's" first choice for a race board, even if they could get the weight of the carbon version down to something respectable. If "big" stops at 90 or even 95 kg it might be a pure flat water prospect but beyond that...

[UKRiverSurfers]

I have used mine in  reasonable chop but not much. As you say the K15 really is a flat water board.

Perfect for inland sheltered waters, which is what I paddle mostly - the Thames.

[Argosi]

Yep, at least with the Naish 17 Glide. In shallow perfectly flat water with no current there is surprisingly little difference between the K15 and the Naish 17 in my experience (and I've GPSed them back-to-back).

However, when going downstream there is a clear difference. I've noticed this with other displacement hull (rounded bottom) boards - my theory (but I have no evidence to support it) is that the rounded bottom of a displacement board "sits" in the water, rather than the planing hull board sitting "on" the water. So when you are moving in the direction of the current, the displacement hull can benefit more from the energy in the water. It might also be something to do with the difference in beams (26.75" vs. 30").

So, unless the Javelin for some reason became suddenly faster than the Glide 17 (and I don't think the basic design changed much, if at all) then I think the K15 could still be said to be a faster flat water board. But you are right, the Naish 17 is surprisingly fast and will see many 14ft race boards a clean pair of heels.

I was wondering whether anyone was going to argue that the new breed of super-narrow and super-light race 14ft boards were faster than a K15, which is after all, several years old in design, and weighs a ton.

You might be right about round bottom boards being faster in downstream or downwind conditions. By far, the fastest light to moderate wind downwind board I've tried is the Starboard Ace 14'x25" and it has a rounded bottom and high sides like the K15. It could be just my imagination, but it seems that the various downwind currents/bumps (in slightly different directions downwind) are able to help "push" the round bottom/high side design of the Ace better than other more conventional designs. There's less turbulence since in mild/moderate conditions, the bumps rarely get higher than the sides of the Ace. With most boards, you have bumps that splash over the sides of the board, resulting in less push and more drag (as the water splashes onto the deck and your feet).

Also the pin tails on both the Ace and K15 help reduce drag.

I'd be curious to see how the Ace 14x25 would compare against the 15x30 K15 in light/moderate downwind conditions.

[UKRiverSurfers]

sits" in the water, rather than the planing hull board sitting "on" the water

A planning hull sits 'in' the water unless it is on the plane.

A displacement hull will sit 'on' the water if it is on the plane..

I am sure that tha k15 has more draught than a flat bottomed hull though, so it will sit a bit lower in the water with some freeboard showing.

[stylo]

I had the last 12" of my K15 cut off and the fin box moved - now a nice custom 14   I'd rather have taken 12" out of the middle but I figure that would have been a bit more trouble    I can dig out a pic if anyone else interested in doing the same.

Hard to tell if any real difference.  Tail is wider so should be a small amount more useful in light swell where the original I found  prone to rolling around when planing.  You do notice the release at the tail is of course not as smooth so losing a little efficiency.  For me it's a great board for winter training on rivers as a little easier to move around and real stable so close to zero risk of a swim even with some of the loons on pleasure boats we get.  Will try some solid training through winter and see how it goes against the 14ft boards for flatwater races next year!

cheers
Adam

[DavidJohn]

Picture please.. 

DJ

[UKRiverSurfers]

Aye - must see pics boss??!

[stylo]

OK, here's the tail shots.  The ZRE logos are optional of course, the board should work the same without them  

Chopped straight across with a slope going down to the end of the tail.  Could have  probably brought the rails in tighter but I think small gain for the effort involved.  Work courtesy of BlueChip in Cheam, UK.  http://www.windsurfer.co.uk/SUP.htm

Cheers
Adam

[Area 10]

at only 228 litres and with four big holes in it's bottom...and at 120kegs the cockpit would fill up with water standing still and only drain when I was really up and moving. Sure it was pretty slick in perfect glass or a tiny ripple but it was a bloody hard work in anything else (especially with a dozen or so litres of sea water sloshing around in it). And with no handles and 40+ lbs it was a pig to carry and load/unload at the car. It wouldn't be this "big boy's" first choice for a race board, even if they could get the weight of the carbon version down to something respectable. If "big" stops at 90 or even 95 kg it might be a pure flat water prospect but beyond that...

Fair point. It seems to be have been quite popular amongst the bigger flat water paddlers in the UK. But granted, our definition of big is not the super-sized USA version. According to the interweb (i.e. caution required), people in the UK are heavier than elsewhere in Europe, but still on average weight just 176lbs. UK women on average weigh 147lbs. This contrasts with American men, who on average say they weigh 196 pounds and women from the USA say they weigh 160 pounds. That is a huge average difference between the countries of 20lbs for men, and 13lbs for women.

If anyone thinks that won't make much of a difference to your board, then try wearing a 20lb weight on your back and see how the flotation of your board (and your balance) changes. I even notice the difference a Camelbak makes.

In your case, 120kegs = 255lbs (or 18 stone by UK metrics). So you weigh half as much again as the average UK man, and would put you at quite an extreme by other European standards. So, I should have been more careful with my phrasing, and you are quite right to pick me up on it.

But actually I didn't have weight in mind at all when I wrote that. I was actually thinking about height (mainly) and reach. I should have said "taller than average paddlers". What I was getting at was that if you are tall, the 30" width of the K15 is not likely to be such an issue for paddle technique. There is also a lot of room in the cockpit so it will accommodate various foot positions, which again can be an issue for taller people with very narrow boards.

Incidentally, many owners here seem to tape over the drain holes when in flat water.

I don't think anyone is going to recommend the K15 for choppy waters. I was just talking about the conditions I specified quite carefully in the original post.

Oh, and the pint I'm drinking, since you mention it, is Fuller's Golden Pride. A couple of those and no way are you paddling anywhere...except round in circles.
 

[Area 10]

maybe Ohana 18'6'' unlimited racer

http://www.ohanapaddleboards.com/18-ft-6-in-unlimited-racer/

Great looking board, and I'm sure it would be faster than the K15. But it stretches the definition of "production", doesn't it? It's just a local manufacturer (California, maybe Hawaii too?) as far as I can see, isn't it? By "production" I was meaning a brand that has worldwide distribution - or at least in more than one continent (and usually is not manufactured in the same country or location as the company is owned).

I'd love one, though...wish I could get them here.