Unlimited Prejudice! Again!

[kneil]

Hi TallDude, I had a Bark 18 that was an awesome distance board, I would enter 12 mile+ outrigger/kayak races and actually compete with them.  BUT I was the only one , here on the East coast it just has not taken off.  I sold it when I realized I was going to be about the only unlimited showing up once the races started gearing up here.  I have been very happy on my Bark 14, it hauls my big behind (225)quite well.  Even then, it has taken the 14s a while to start appearing at races here, but they are definitely catching up with the 12-6s.  I would keep your unlimited for just the joy of moving fast over long distance, but if you really want to hit the race circuit get a 14.  Personally I just could not justify having both (wife: "why is that huge board always hanging on the garage wall?)

[pdxmike]

So this guy walks into Joe Bark's shop and says" I want a really fast open ocean board that fits me." Joe's eye's light-up and shows him a 19' secret weapon a new rudder system he's been working on. The guy says " but I want to race it." Joe interest fades and pulls a catologue out, " You can pick one out of here..." This is Hypothetical of course, but if longer boards are excluded from races, I'm not far off the mark. You can plug this scenario in for Mark Raapporst (won't happen in HI), Craig Richmond or Bob Reed.

Yep, the new question:  "Do you want to go fast, or do you want to race?"

[surf4food]

I can't say for prone paddle board racing, but it seems SUP unlimited is growing.  It's a very specialized class and alway will be but it seems more and more companies now include and unlimited board in their line-up.

[TallDude]

It might come full circle. I use to race Hobie Cats. Because of I'm 6'7 and 230, ironically I had to race the 18' class. The 14' and 16'ers were to small for me. At first there was hardly anyone racing the 18'ers. As the years past, more people were buying and racing the 18's. It may be the same case for the SUP's. For the most part, each unlimited SUP is pretty much a custom. Right now you see cheap ones for sale, because they were team race boards which are glassed at the minimum to keep them light, and basically disposable. After a year, the glass is rippled and they leak like a sieve (had to look up the spelling on that one). The 18 is a big board. It's hard to move maneuver when transport to and from. They require a larger storage. A reliable, all carbon, custom unlimited aint cheap either. They are just fast, and suit a guy my size.

[surf4food]

The 18 is a big board. It's hard to move maneuver when transport to and from. They require a larger storage. A reliable, all carbon, custom unlimited aint cheap either. They are just fast, and suit a guy my size.

I think that may very well be why there aren't more people using them now, but I still think they're slowly growing in popularity, and not just for size of the paddler.  People will want what's fast.

[PonoBill]

Unlimiteds are the great equalizer for weight. I think it behooves the race organizations to take a good look at the sport, collect as much data as they can, and start looking at handicapping systems. Without a handicap it's going to devolve to the lightest, youngest, best paddler, not the best paddler. Restricting the length to 12'6" is an incredibly short-sighted mistake. It simply eliminates the big, powerful guys from contention.

This isn't new ground, it's well established that weight is one of the most important determinants of human-powered sports. For that matter even animal powered sport.

In some paddle sports, particularly sprints, big, powerful guys are competitive (not dominant, but competitive). They are the ones where the length of the crafts and their displacement is at the longer end. More weight always increases drag, but it's a percentage thing, and at the longer end of the spectrum the general skin friction is higher. Increasing weight increases that slightly, but it's a slower ramp than having to design a 12'6" to float a 240 pound athlete. That board is going to be wider, have a wider nose and tail to stay trimmed, and the paddler is going to have a much smaller operating zone.

It's just physics.

[Celeste]

The assumption is that the race organizers in question might have something other then their own self interests in mind.  Assuming you know another's motives is always trouble.  I am betting that most race organizers only do what is best for how they view their own situation, not what is best for the sport. 

The "run what you brung" nature of a new sport is a lot of fun, but as the sport matures the variables start to converge.  If you don't care for the direction of convergence, then it behooves you to get involved to make sure your desires are addressed.   

[Dialy]

Maybe, down here in Socal, some big guys are going to get tired of getting beat by girls and 12 year old kids in the restricted length classes. Maybe they will decide to move up to the unlimited class where power can be better put to use and the unlimiteds will gain some popularity...
Candice Appleby recently won overall in an elite 14' race in Mexico, beating some top male racers for the money prize. I think it would be pretty hard , for a woman, to do this to 200+ lbs Rob Rojas or Thomas Maximus on their flat water unlimited boards.
I think the top women are going to be a great promotion tool for the unlimited class.
Go Candice, Gillian and Brandi!

[Waves4supper]

To be reasonably fair, there should not be a no-rules unlimited class, but perhaps a system where all competitors should have a very similar "rule number".

This "Rule number" should be a calculated from a formula with elements proportional to the square root of the waterline length and in some way inversely proportional (or how do you say that in english) to the weight of the rider and the board.

Light competitors would have to use shorter boards and heavier guys gradually longer boards.

If the formula for the rule number would be chosen well, it could be set so that the bulk of the female competitors and light guys would be able to use 12'6 boards, standard weight guys 14' boards and guys over e.g. 90 kg would be allowed to calculate a custom length.

On the other hand, the formula should also take into account that heavier riders can generally produce more Watts than lighter riders. And the fact that adding ballast to your board, to allow a lighter person to use a longer board, increases your stability (if placed low) and thus would also be more beneficial than added body weight. 

Sounds like a good project for a naval architecture student to come up with a decent formula...

You could also have the 12'6 class, the 14' class and the rule number class separately, but I'm personally not a fan of competition sports where a specific body-type gives an unfair advantage, neither of handicap-systems where the first one over the line is not necessarily the winner.
With SUP, it's perfectly possible to calculate and compensate for the "unfair" advantage in advance.

[TEX_SUP]

Why not just use the same length board for everyone and let the best paddler win?  That's what racing is about.

If you need more volume then get a 12'6" with more volume.

Allowing faster unlimited boards in a race with 12'6"s eliminates 99% of the population due to storage and transportation limits.  The sport will be less likely to grow if people show up with their 12'6" and then a similar strength paddler shows up with a 18' and wins.

[pdxmike]

Why not just use the same length board for everyone and let the best paddler win?  That's what racing is about.

If you need more volume then get a 12'6" with more volume.

Allowing faster unlimited boards in a race with 12'6"s eliminates 99% of the population due to storage and transportation limits.  The sport will be less likely to grow if people show up with their 12'6" and then a similar strength paddler shows up with a 18' and wins.

That makes sense in theory, but the reality is that you can't equalize things for a heavier paddler on a 12-6 board by adding volume.  To add the volume, you have to add width, and that slows the board down.   At 14', you still have to add some volume and width, but not so much, because you have the extra length to work with.  It's not until the boards reach unlimited length (over 14', and probably more like 17' or so) that the board length stops being a disadvantage to heavier paddlers. 

So to let the best paddler win, I'd say the opposite--let each paddler choose whatever board works best.  I'd still keep the shorter categories (or at least a 14' one) because like you said, unlimited aren't practical for most people. 

[surf4food]

Why not just use the same length board for everyone and let the best paddler win?  That's what racing is about.

If you need more volume then get a 12'6" with more volume.

Allowing faster unlimited boards in a race with 12'6"s eliminates 99% of the population due to storage and transportation limits.  The sport will be less likely to grow if people show up with their 12'6" and then a similar strength paddler shows up with a 18' and wins.

I think elimination of 99 percent is a bit of a stretch.  It's no different than people owning canoes, kayaks, sail boats, dirt bikes, quads, jet skis, etc.  The simple fact is the unlimited boards are fast and exciting to watch.  A one size fits all is unrealistic and would ultimately kill the sport, at least the racing aspect of it.

[TallDude]

It's not only weight that's a disadvantage, it's height too. At 6'7, I have a longer reach than most anyone aided by a 91" paddle. At the catch, my blade and lever are so far forward, that the nose just pearls on any 12'6 race board. I have to stand a 6" to a foot back for a full stroke. Then the bow wake is so big, and the tail digs. A little better on a 14' board. I've found the 16' to be the perfect minimum I can race. At that point, I'm in the unlimited, so may as well go 19' or 20'. I know Jude at Huki and he even said, "with a guy your size, you pretty much have to race a unlimited."

[gorgebob]

 Three times a year I am a race director.  Unlimited is not dead its just out there in flux in our area. I don't agree with all the WPA guide lines but its nice that the WPA is trying to standardize the sport.
I don't believe in the surf class. There is such a difference in board speeds its not funny. If you wanted to win at surf class you easily could with a tweaked displacement board that met the dims. My choice is to run first timers  all together in the short course as recreational. Everyone is timed and can use that time to work with. If you want to get WPA points get a race board join a class.
Out of 42 racers in or first race this year we had 1 male 12'6"the rest were on 14s or in rec class. No unlimiteds entered. If an unlimited wanted to I would gladly let them race  and give them a finish time but no trophy spot unless I knew there were going to be a class.  As I see it 14 mens, 12'6" womens, rec class. Clydesdales like in Cycle Cross makes sense at 225 lbs. You could add weight to your board to join in. Chuck Patterson will be in your class smiling more than ever.

[peterp]

We've recently started offering a shortcourse together with the long course and we pretty much let anyone race whatever they got in both. The 14' class has become dominant because we generally just offer line honour prizes and no-one has been able to keep up on 12'6s so they are pretty much not being used. Why someone haven't brought along an Unlimited is beyond me, maybe it's because I tried and still didn't win....