SUP Conflict in Hilo

[StanluvsSUP]

Motherson and Fun,

I admire your patience and sensibilities.
Next time, if the guy is literally hitting your daughter you must act and have the guy arrested or live with it and keep quiet. Hilotown will be a benefit here as everyone will soon find out the REAL story. Probably some thanks for taking such a person out of the lineup and off the streets too.

[PonoBill]

An all-in-all out ban is not my personal intention. I personally would like to see some kind of rule that will make SUPs accountable so that it doesn't become a battle every time.  Someone suggested SUPs staying 50ft away....someone else suggested rights for SUPs & lefts for all others.....or time restraints....anything that will help everyone and still make everyone safe.  Any better ideas?  Speaking up and/or educating isn't working unfortunately...

Thanks for clarifying, btw.

You're just going about this the wrong way. You have a legitimate complaint, but your answer for the problem is fundamentally wrong. By fundamental I mean all the things that word can mean--unfair, ineffective, incorrect, etc.

You don't resolve social problems by segregating people, you exacerbate them and perpetuate them. We will all go through a period when things are uncomfortable, and then they'll get better. In the meantime you push hard to get people to behave. I know you didn't ask for this, and you'd like it if things went back the way they were. But they won't. Things change.

All the "solutions" you speak of above will maintain the tension and divide the place you enjoy into zones you're not supposed to go into. Get the SUP surfers and surfers to work on the normal social constraints of etiquette, consideration for others, and Aloha and you'll have something more like it was before the invasion. You could do that through the group you've put together on facebook and fix the real problem, or you can escalate the bad feelings. Ultimately that's everyone's choice.

[Strand Leper]

An all-in-all out ban is not my personal intention. I personally would like to see some kind of rule that will make SUPs accountable so that it doesn't become a battle every time.  Someone suggested SUPs staying 50ft away....someone else suggested rights for SUPs & lefts for all others.....or time restraints....anything that will help everyone and still make everyone safe.  Any better ideas?  Speaking up and/or educating isn't working unfortunately...

Thanks for clarifying, btw.

The law of torts, established in the English Common Law and passed onto us a few hundred years ago already does this.  Every operator or rider of any craft is responsible for injuries inflicted upon others through his or her negligent acts...  There is no magic wand though... you need to take the time to enforce your rights... and not wish that others would do it for you.  Or take this issue to the authorities, and let them handle the matter criminally.


The ACTUAL remedies to your situation already exist... they are just not likely the remedies that you prefer.

As to wanting your daughter to be safe in the ocean... that is a noble desire, but the ocean is inherently unsafe.  Granted, dicks like the guy you describe make the ocean even more unsafe... but the ocean is an inherently unsafe place.

Tim

[Strand Leper]

One more thing... perception is quite important.  Last weekend at *** I was cruising between peaks.  I had been out since pre-dawn, but the lineup was starting to fill up, so I started to paddle over to where I paddled out originally.

I rode a few waves... gave away exponentially more than I rode... then a nice set wave appears.  Everyone is out of position except me.  You know, the whole standup vision thing.  Head high.  I backdoor the peak, make the first section, super fast wave that will be all about positioning and styling... quick top turn for speed through the next section and a surfer paddles into the wave... I was doing Mach 11 (on my 8'3")... I did not give an inch... nor did I call him off... If he wanted to eat my dust, fine with me... scream by him into the next section (to this day, don't know if he went or not... don't care), super late through a tight closing barrel, and another surfer decides he wants the next section... tries to paddle into the wave... I did not yield my line... at this point going Mach 12... (again, don't know if he went, don't care)... make the section, the wave flattens out and cut out with the old "lay it down for super speed" frontside cut out...

Now, what did people on the beach perceive?  Was I being dangerous to the surfers?  Was I out of control?  Was I mean because I didn't yield my line?  Everyone in the water who will admit it recognizes that I was the only guy in position to ride the wave to its fill potential.  I was closest to the peak... and that I styled the sh*t out of that mother, and that the only line to make it through the sections was the line I took...
and this was the only set wave that I took after the crowd showed up...

That's probably not how the story went in the parking lot later on, however...

No judgment though, super old school longboarder... "Holy sh*t you go fast on that thing, nice wave."

[Hollis]

sweet story

[surfing is fun]

I'm glad some of you got my humor.  Obviously both sides have their names for each other,SUP-sweeper janitor, longboard-wrongboard, bodyboard-speed bump lid balldragger (sorry body boarders I think you have the most names).  I posted about the issue not just because my daughter was involved or I was backing up my wife.  A real problem is emerging where I live.  I appreciate the support many of you are giving but I also feel some of you do not understand.  The surfing community is constantly growing here and now with the latest invasion of SUP's peoples nerves are getting a bit frayed.  As you are now aware there is a bit of a movement to take more drastic action.  It would all hinge on the DLNR, determining there is a problem.  Ideas such as odd/even days, zones etc. have been thrown around.  Some guys are real gung-ho for full on ban others aren't sure.  Like someone said earlier it's a small community, everyone has friends on both sides of the fence.  What is at stake is freedom.  We all want to go out and have a quality experience, I mean I surf because it is fun. None of us want to come in from a session pissed.  From my experience with DLNR (surf school issues) they are pretty much passive.  They do not have the manpower to enforce any rules in surfbreaks and they are under funded to pass new legislation.  So what is this all about then?  This is basically a call out for people who share surfbreaks to speak up when something isn't right, and support someone who speaks up about an injustice and not leave that person hanging.  If that wave hog or hogs is ruining everyone else time and some one calls them on it chime in and support.  If someone is dangerous everyone bring it to there attention.  Everybody needs to stand up and do the right thing.  Even though it is sometimes difficult try not to pidgeon hole yourself as one kind of surfer, SUP-tribe vs. mal tribe, vs. shortboard tribe.  I we are out there catching waves we must all be surfers. 

[ehrawn]

From my experience with DLNR (surf school issues) they are pretty much passive.

I am extremely sympathetic to your family's plight. I have a daughter of my own- too small to surf, but, soon, she too will be out there and I'm not sure how I would have handled a situation like you encountered. I can also understand your wife's hesitation with directly confronting or reporting the individual in question. We live in small communities, even on Oahu. Too often that means disagreements get settled in the parking lot, as they say, rather than a court of law.

That being said, regulation will not solve your problem. You are right that the DLNR is a passive entity that lacks enforcement capabilities. Just look to the Ala Moana Beach Park decision: complaints from Waikiki swim club to ban SUPs only resulted in a poorly designed optional SUP lane. The buoys that mark it run right down the optimal path for swimmers. Really, the only ones who lost out in the deal are the swimmers. Complain too much to the DLNR, and you might get what you ask for: limitations on when or where YOU can surf.

You can't stop kooks from acting like kooks, but through outreach and education, you can reduce the number of kooks.

[tautologies]

Having dealt with DLNR both professionally and personally for different issues (competitions and regulation), they are doing a phenomenal job. They do not want to regulate, and as they say, regulation usually leads to two sets of losers. Having see people that made a complaint actually end up with being the part that was regulated I can tell you..don't go there.

I really do not see how they can regulate a surfspots for SUP. It clearly cannot be the size of the board as many SUP are no way smaller than a longboard.

Having dealt with regulations on other sports, I know for a fact that bans would only be effective on those of us that actually try to follow the rule of law. One of the worst offenders we have over here for a different sport said that if there was a ban enacted here he would make it his life mission to break the law and phuck everything up for other water users (obviously not SUP).

[Sup96720]

This would probably open up a "can of worms" like some other people already posted...as the usual outcome is both sides end up losing something....days....or spots, but I guess we'll see what becomes of this next week Wednesday.

[Jon E.B.]

Things finally seemed to come to a head when the SUP World Championships came to town.  Certain SUPers started getting greedy and behavior was occurring like Pono Bill describes.  Catching every wave in every set not allowing anything for anyone else but scraps.  Nobody wanted to say anything.   By the way, the competitors that came to Hilo from all over the world had courtesy in the water.  Right after the event ended a Bayfront swell arrived (rarely breaking left in Hilo).  This also coincided with an SUP expo that was connected to the World Contest.  Bayfront is usually crowded anytime it breaks but this time was extra crowded mainly with SUP's,  Any body else could not get a wave since the SUP's have greater paddling ability.  Basically it was anarchy in the line-up, as half of the guys out were new to the surfing thing, dropping in on each other, boards bouncing around everywhere.

OK...
I was there for the post-event Bayfront swell. As I was sidelined with a nasty cut to the foot, all I could do was watch - freakin' sucked because the waves looked so sweet!
Anyway, though I would not describe it as extreme pandemonium (as the above post suggests), I must say that I was appalled at how many set waves were being taken, with blatant disregard for the rest of the surfing community, by a few SUPsurfers.
Sure, we all like to get the most macking set waves, but consideration for others is key.
Nobody likes a wavehog - no matter his/her craft.
Aloha is about sharing and mutual respect - you give you get... bottom line.

Solution: Aloha

[Punipaka]

Jon, you hit the nail on the head with the Hilo issue.   I live and sup there too and I believe that the real issue, whether some want to admit or not, is taking too many waves.     And I think you know as well as I, that the worst offenders that day were OLD TIME SURFERS that sup now.   There are only a couple of them, but because we (SUPS) are more visible, it is much more obvious.   I'd bet that these guys were also wave hogs on their longboards, shortboards, etc.     And one of the reasons no one will say anything to them, (suppers or surfers) is because they are old timers.    We all know who they are, but I bet you we won't see them at the upcoming meeting.

I also think that's one of the reasons that BISSA is trying for a ban is because they don't want to speak directly to the worst offenders.

Not trying to be overly redundant here, but we're really only talking about a few people here.  I believe in working within my circle of influence and hope that others will do the same to educate and counsel. 

[kuleanapono]

Aloha e kakou,
Hi everyone,
This is my first post on this forum, and apologize in advance for the lengthy discussion, but felt it was necessary,
I've been surfing for over 35+years all over the islands, and surfing in Hilo for the last 20+years.
I've surf shortboards pretty much my whole surfing life, with a little bit of longboarding mixed in on those "mellow"days...
Lately, I've gotten into sups...
I can empathize with both sides, and can understand the complexity of the problem at hand.
We must look at the root of the problem.
Its safety in the water, as well as the ability to be a wave hog.
Safety has to be dealt with on multiple fronts.
We have to educate the new suppers who were not former surfers, on the etiquette of surfing, as well as guiding them to where they "should" learn, if we feel that they could be a hazard to others. -- How many times have we all said to beginners that they should go to a different break or area so that they don't get hurt, or hurt others.  Why isn't this done with suppers?
We also need to educate the paddle in surfers and bodyboarders of the limitations of sups, and what to do to not jeopardize themselves.-- like paddling out directly behind a supper, who can't duck dive the board.  we all know not to follow big longboarders for the very same reason.  We can never really eliminate the dangers involved in surfing, but we can try to limit the amount by what we can control -- our own actions.
As for "wave-hogging" aspect of the conflict, the same people who were doing this on suppers, were doing it when they were longboarding, and/or shortboarding.  I also see a lot of new suppers "wave-hogging" because they lack the knowledge of the "unwritten rules" of surfing.  Regardless, "wave-hoggers" lack aloha, and may need to be reminded -- by EVERYONE...
DLNR CANNOT regulate us...
WE MUST REGULATE OURSELVES...
Mother Ocean is for everyone to share and enjoy...
We must teach and perpetuate true Aloha in AND out of the water...
Malama i ke kai...
Malama i ke kahi i ke kahi....
Care for our ocean...
Care for one another...
Mahalo for you time and patience....
Aloha...

[StanluvsSUP]

Punipaka, I've seen what you are talking about. Bad blood between WAY before SUP.

IMHO, H = humble  I think the county boys in Red and Yellow could, should take or be given a little more control and :

1. Warn the offenders.

2. Warn again

3. Pull them out.  Be fair ( AND UNBIASED ) but firm.

3A. Can't believe I'm saying this but give the offenders a time out for a few minutes and talk to them about what they are doing wrong. If they know it all or don't want to listen they can go home.

4. Not for this one but could be like traffic laws. Repeat offenders get fined.

Either way, this whole thing could start Thursday morning if most? everyone agreed on it and it would be a done deal after that. No more meetings or banning of anything.

This could be an easy, fluidly adaptable solution that I think everyone could agree on.

1. The guys are already there.
2. They know the scene and its players.
3. They know and understand safety surf dynamics better than most.
4. Did I say they are already there ?

I know whats coming. So what if need rescue or now taking eyes off the water.
Put another guy there on the crazy days and have John K. re-train the guys to the new reality.  Have a guy out at Bayfront fo said crazy days as well.

Maybe the Coast Guard can spring for the new tower right there at the landing eh Stan ?!

[tautologies]

Safety has to be dealt with on multiple fronts.
We have to educate the new suppers who were not former surfers, on the etiquette of surfing, as well as guiding them to where they "should" learn, if we feel that they could be a hazard to others. -- How many times have we all said to beginners that they should go to a different break or area so that they don't get hurt, or hurt others.  Why isn't this done with suppers?

this so true. One aspect here is to contact all the rental places that rents out board to people who has never been in the water...it seems to me that many shops believe that their responsibility ends with a customer signing off on the contract where they will not sue. This is not good enough. I suggest a mandatory lesson and test be part of the rental.

I can't say how many times I've had to talk with people renting boards where they are just flailing...a good hint that have received absolutely no instruction is that almost all of them are holding their paddle the wrong way.... 
We here on the zone can be instrumental getting something like that distributed.   

[Piros]

I've been following this thread with great interest but I have been reluctant to comment because I'm on the other side of the world. I can see the same problem starting here in Australia and the sport is still in it's explosion stage getting worse every day with newbies blindly paddling into no go zones.

We have one of the best breaks in the world the Snapper Super Bank with waves up to a mile long but since I started Supping 2-1/2 years ago I haven't surfed it , some days I just look at and cry with my Sup in my truck and know I can't go out , it's simply too crowded to put a Sup out there. No matter how wide you sit you will eventually surf through the masses and then have to paddle out through them.

We are the only surf craft that ditch our boards even the mal riders & goat boaters stay in contact with a barrel roll .What are you going to do when a clean up set comes through and you are out front with a dozen crawlers behind you ? Regardless of how small your Sup is you just can't control it in tight situations.

All my crew are very experienced and ride sub 9's and use 8' leg ropes plus I even do the odd barrel roll but it's not enough to always stay in contact with the board. Common sense and courtesy is the simple answer just don't Sup their if it's crowded.

The unfortunate part is the constant influx of the new guys paddling out on 11-6 x 5" boats with 10' leg ropes which stretch out to 20' are wiping out multiple surfers in one fall.

The stink eye on our popular breaks is so intense it can peel off your deck grip but people still paddle through and create hell. As stated previously the shop owners and rental crew have a lot to answer for.

Hopefully we never get to the Hilo stage but the writing is on the wall.