Which GoPro?

[Chaser]

So my wife got sick and tired of me talking about all the cool videos everyone is making through their GoPro cameras and knew that I wouldn't buy myself one, so for my b-day, she gave me a gift cert to get a camera. 

That said, I am looking at either the HD Hero 960 or the HD Surf Hero.  It looks like the major difference is the 1080p capability of the Surf Hero and I am trying to figure out if that quality level is worth the extra $$$.

I plan on using this to record SUP sessions, but I am also extremely fired up to be able to video my kids learning to ski, surf, and SUP.

I know a bunch of you are GoPro experts...so I would love some advice!!!

Thanks!

[headmount]

Well first off Chaser, your avatar is one of my fav actors in one of my fav roles.  I even got to take Bill surfing once.
So the GoPro is great but you gotta be very close up and the world is round with that super wide angle.  I have a wtrprf to 30' Panasonic TS2 and recommend it.  My wife made up a headmount for me so it's a great steady cam.  Not 1080p but 720p which is plenty unless you're going to make Blu Ray disks.  720 is plenty for YTbe and web uses.  I think it's currently around $350 but check around.  It's been out for awhile and as you know the price drops.  The camera is a small light rectangle point and shoot style camera and thus easily fits inside any kind of helmet mount you figure out.  The wtrprf Canon has all kinds of bulbous points that doesn't fit well into a pocket or anything for that matter.  I shoot vid at 28mm (considered the start of wide angle) which is wide open on the TS2 and is about a 74 degree angle of view.  The GoPro has a 170 degree angle of view... ultra wide and round images.  Check my vids out and the GoPro and also compare the color.  Good luck and feel free to ask any more Qs

[mdsurf]

The Ts2 is available for $249 now and it is a great water camera.  The gopro shoots good too and has plenty of mounts available.  It is for more close up and it does get very round if at distance.

[refthimos]

I'm a little bit of a videocam geek myself - have 2 Vhold Contour HDs as well as a nice Sony CX-550V with Merlin Steadicam for non-sports shooting.  The Contour HDs are very similar to what GoPro offers, the biggest difference, in my mind at least, being that the GoPro has more of a "fish-eye" effect, which is great when you are shooting really close to the subject but still want to be able to see the surroundings (think GoPro mounted on the front of a shortboard pointed back towards the rider) but not so good when you are farther away from your subject (think on the front of an unlimited SUP, or in other uses like snowboarding, biking, etc).

As far as quality goes, I have to say, the "1080P" captured by the GoPro (and the Contour for that matter) simply do NOT match the 1080P captured by a nice prosumer (like my CX-550V) videocam.  With that said, the Sony is not something I can bolt to a helmet or mount easily on my SUP.  The GoPro and Contour are obviously much smaller and designed for that purpose.

I started off using my Contour at 1080P and 30fps for snowboarding but have decided that the 720P and 60fps setting is better for that fast-moving action.  On my SUP, I go ahead and film at 1080P because the action is not nearly as fast as on a snowboard (I've hit about 40mph on my snowboard, haven't come close to that on an SUP).  But I don't fool myself thinking I am going to get that "Wow" HD (think Discovery Channel doing one of their cool nature/travel shows where the image just pops on a 1080P TV) - I need the CX-550V for that.

So if I were you, I wouldn't worry too much about whether your cam shoots in 1080P or 720P, though I am guessing that if the same cam is offered in both, the 1080P version is likelier the newer version and so would presumably have more processing power and may well shoot better 720P video than the "720P only" cam will.

One last thing - with all that said, I would not discount the advantage of a 720P or 1080 cam over a standard def 480P cam.  While you do need a Blu-Ray player to watch a movie burned at 720P or 1080P, you don't need a Blu-Ray burner to burn that movie.  You can burn a 720P or 1080P video on a regular cheap DVD-R with no problem.  You just need to make sure your software allows for AVCHD burning.  On the Mac, for instance, this just requires a $19.99 plug-in for Toast.  Your burning software may already include this capability (it's not viewed as particulary high-end, and as more and more high def videos are created, the ability to burn AVCHD will become something consumers come to expect as standard).  Because a standard DVD hold ~5GB of data, and a single-layer Blu-Ray disc holds ~25GB (and many Blu-Ray movies sold are on a dual-layer disc, which holds ~50GB), you are not going to be able to burn an entire feature length 1080P movie onto your cheapie DVD-R, but you will get at least 14-15 minutes at the highest Mbit/s 1080P setting, and longer if your Mbit/s encoding is lower or if you are burning 720P.  For more home movies, this is plenty of time.

[Chaser]

Wow!!! What great advice from you guys....my head is spinning a bit (may be the beers from last night) but great advice nonetheless.  Sounds like I need to do some more research on these other models.  Thanks again.

And Headmount all I have to say is Gunga...Gunga galunga!!!!

[juandoe]

The Panny TS2 replacement comes out next month and does have 1080 video.  I have enjoyed my TS2.  Only issue to date was some lens fogging in December.  Press release here

http://dpreview.com/news/1101/11012511panasonicts3.asp

[LaPerouseBay]

And Headmount all I have to say is Gunga...Gunga galunga!!!!

[jesutton3]

The GoPro 960 cannot film in 720P @ 60 fps or in 1080P @ 30 fps.  It also lacks the rear expansion port.

I find that my prefered mode on my GoPro is 720 @ 60 fps.  But then again I use it for wakeboarding and snowboarding as well, which is much higher speed than the average SUP session.

Also they just release a LCD screen that attaches to the back of the GoPro HD Hero camera via the expansion port.  I've recieved mine and played with it in the house but not in the field yet.  It allows you to review the images and videos you've shot, aim the camera, and use it like a normal point and shoot.

Hopefully this solves the problem I had on my last snowboard trip.  We got two days worth of useless footage before finally getting the angle right on the third day.  I think the LCD expansion solves the biggest flaw of the GoPro.

[greatdane]

Hey Jesutton... where did you end up putting the GoPro when you went snowboarding?  I have found the helmet mount works pretty good for following friends, but you gotta stay pretty close.  My friend mounted one on the board itself, way too much vibration and snow spray.

Check out this video... the riding isn't worth much, but it gives a good example of the GoPro HD Surf Hero in the snow...

[jesutton3]

I used the helmet mount this time around.  I also had the same experience, works pretty well for filming other people.  It also seems it really kills the sense of speed with the helmet mount though.

I considered mounting it to the board but figured the vibration would be horrible.  Another idea we had on the trip was to mount the camera on the riders lead leg facing downhill.  We figured this would give basically the same view as a board mount facing forward but should cut out some of the vibration.  We didn't have the materials to make it happen though.

The chest mount produces some great video for the skiers and has worked wonderfully for us wakeboarding.  Too bad this doesn't work the same for the snowboard.  Your chest just doesn't point forward enough of the time.

[andygere]

I use the HD Surf here, primarily mounted on my paddle shaft.  It's terrific for this use, and really makes excellent quality video. 



I also use it snowboarding, and find the helmet mount the best way to go.  I did some test shots to get the angle right, then locked it down tight.  I tried the elastic strap first, and while it did work, it had a tendency to change positions and ultimately screw up the angle.  The sticky mount on the helmet works great.

@jesutton3, I'm surprised that the chest mount doesn't work well for snowboarding.  Shoulders and chest are pointing downhill when I ride.  Do your arms get in the way and block the field of view?

[greatdane]

I have had the same trouble with the chest mount snowboarding.  While some of the time my shoulders are squarely pointing down fall line, my chest is often pointing at a 45 degree angle, and then during a toe-edge or frontside turn, the camera is pointing at a 90 away from the board.

I like the idea of the front leg/shin mount... But the most interesting videos to watch are the ones where the rider uses a few different camera angles and switches it up in post editing.

Another fun view is on the helmet, but pointing backwards, while your buddy chases your tail... it gets a good view of him.

[andygere]

Good points on the chest mount, probably not as good a mounting point as the front of the melon. I saw a guy this weekend with the aft facing helmet mount, I'll have to give that one a try.  I filled a media card chasing the kids around the mountain this weekend, I put something up on my Vimeo site when I get it edited. Thanks to the moderators for allowing a brief off-topic discussion...

[sharksupper]

I vote for the 1080 for self shooting or close up.  I mount on the paddle for shooting others and nose for self shooting.

Some vid from this weekend...

[jesutton3]

Yeah I have the same issues as greatdane when trying the chest mount snowboarding.

On our last trip I saw a guy in the lift line on a snowboard but he had a ski pole with the GoPro mounted to the bottom.  He would hold it out in front or to the side, pretty much the same idea as the paddle mounted shots here (minus the stomach turning shots when someone actually paddles with the paddle, just my opinion though).