Author Topic: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal  (Read 42373 times)

surfcowboy

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Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« on: November 29, 2010, 09:09:26 AM »
Ok, I don't want to hijack the nose leash plug thread but I found myself in a situation recently where I bailed when I shouldn't have. I need, as a newb (who by the way, is pretty solid on a wave), some info on what to do:

Head high plus wave, near double,  caught inside on the way out. (I got to my feet after a fall and looked up to see one breaking/curling 40 feet from me) There was no way to make it to a safe spot in time.

I lost my board and yeah, I feel crappy about putting folks in danger so I'm coming to the pro's for some knowledge. (I've already beaten myself up enough on this one, trust me, so try to take it easy on the "don't do that" comments unless you were somehow magically never "new".)

With no way to spin the board and grab the rear in time, do I:

1 - try to ride over it standing - (no way that I can see this working and so a sure loss of board)

2 - drop to the rear, lying down and try to let the board go up and over. (won't I end up dumped over backwards with a board coming down on my head?)

3 - jump off and hold the nose of the board?

Obviously avoiding the situation would be best but I have to believe that it happens to the best riders from time to time. Also, trying to turn and "catch" the wave lying down isn't an option in the short wave period I'm talking about.

I'm assuming 3 would work best but I'm not sure if I could, or how to, keep the board. (wax my nose?)  2 seems doable but I'm not clear on the mechanics of waves, would I poke through or go over backwards and really endanger myself?

Experience would be more useful here than "thoughts" and theories. I'd love to hear from who's done it. But I know that as I get into bigger surf, I'll need these skills and I intend to learn to deal with waves correctly for myself and those around me. I see it as the next step in my progression and I want the right info to be in my toolkit when I'm in a tight spot.

Thank you all for going before me.

PonoBill

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2010, 10:03:17 AM »
With a shortboard the answer is easy--duck dive. With a big floaty SUP it's not so clear. In my opinion Sam Pae solved this problem quite some time ago with tail handles. I love them. As long as you have one that works correctly (doesn't trap your fingers) they turn being caught inside double overhead into no big deal. You grab the handle, point the nose away from the wave, and hold on. First time you try it you will simply be astonished.

You almost always have time to spin the board if you have a good handle that you can grab with certainty that it won't trap your fingers. The alignment doesn't have to be perfect, the wave will take care of that. If the board is angled some it will usually flip while you're holding it. That actually makes the tail handle work better as long as the flip won't trap your fingers.

I've never been pulled over the falls hanging onto a tail handle. I haven't figured out why they work so well, I just know they do. Lots of people say they don't want to be anywhere near their board if they're caught inside. That's how you can tell they've never tried one. Better surfers and watermen than me probably don't need one, they don't seem to get into these sticky situations. But I'm a believer.

If you have time you can flip the board over and have an even gentler pull, but there might be a surfer in the wave and I don't like exposing them to a fin, so I've pretty much quit doing that. Works almost as well with the board upright.

With a good strong leash and no one in the wave to put in danger, there's no harm in bailing. I try to dive into the base of the wave and go fairly deep.  If someone is in the wave and could be hit, drop onto the board and take your licks.

Every year at the beginning of the season I go into the inside where there no crowd and intentionally get caught by a progression of bigger waves. I do it with and without holding the handle. Did it this year. The no handle stuff is always a little terrifying--reaching what feels like the end of my air while still feeling the wave pressure, knowing swimming up is not an option (you really always have more time, as Dave K. says "that's just a feeling" as in "That pain you're feeling is just a feeling"). The handle hold downs are a breeze. A brief tug, a bit of turbulence, and then a gentle elevator ride to the surface.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 10:13:52 AM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

H2Oman

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2010, 10:13:33 AM »
You're going to eat it sometimes.  That's just the way it goes and the fact that sups are thicker and heavier than most surfboards just makes it harder.

"1":  You'll be surprise what you can make it over.  If you can get some speed, surf stance and step to the tail at impact with the whitewater, you might make it.  If you fall, you will probably still have the board next to you vs. washing away with the break.  If the wave is big and breaking and you know you're going to get hit - provided no one is on the wave - I paddle as hard as I can at an angle towards safe water.  You still get hit, but hopefully the force of the break has died down.  If someone is riding - you gotta take the beating and head towards the impact.

"2": if the wave is overhead and about to break before you can get over, you are probably going over the falls if you stay on the board.  Sometimes I'll bail and try to push the board over the crest with my hands at the last minute, then dive through the face.

"3": I do this on smaller waves in the impact zone, but it's hard to hold on with wide boards.  I'll hold the leash strap on the tail as well, but only on small sets.  I don't practice the turtle roll, but it is affective and maybe someone with more experience with big waves will have more to offer: http://www.surfing-waves.com/turtle_roll.htm

I took it to the chin and I'm still having trouble sitting on one butt cheek from getting banged up in sessions last week.  Thankfully the fun outweighs the pain.

H2Oman

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 10:16:08 AM »
"Yes" to the strong leashes!  Same goes for double leash plugs.  I broke 2 leashes last week in heavy sets.  BTW, swimming with a paddle sucks, swimming with 2 pieces of a paddle sucks even more.

surfcowboy

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 10:31:39 AM »
That is solid advice - I'm calling a local repairman and getting a handle on my "gun" ;)

I need to practice holding the rear working without a handle, maybe the arm over thing. Travel and rentals are where I'll likely see a decent percentage of my heavier waves on the road. I think I remember Blaine talking about holding the rear with his arm over the deck.

Anyone else? What about the guys who've gone over the top? I like the idea of being in the water as a drag anchor but what are some hairy over the top stories? I recently learned that I can ride over and punch the nose through anything that's not breaking more than a foot or two below the crest so that's given me a lot more options in getting out. Spill guys...

surfcowboy

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2010, 10:40:26 AM »
Turning Turtle with a paddle has to be tough but I'm going to practice a bit and see if I can get it. If you're going to get out, you owe it to the world to practice the parts that aren't fun as well as the fun parts. ODJ inspired me to practice step back turns and paddling in surf stance and it's really paid off with more waves per session.

PonoBill

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2010, 10:45:49 AM »
That is solid advice - I'm calling a local repairman and getting a handle on my "gun" ;)

I need to practice holding the rear working without a handle, maybe the arm over thing. Travel and rentals are where I'll likely see a decent percentage of my heavier waves on the road. I think I remember Blaine talking about holding the rear with his arm over the deck.

Anyone else? What about the guys who've gone over the top? I like the idea of being in the water as a drag anchor but what are some hairy over the top stories? I recently learned that I can ride over and punch the nose through anything that's not breaking more than a foot or two below the crest so that's given me a lot more options in getting out. Spill guys...

You can certainly do that, it works to a degree, but you need to be careful of the fin. Don't grab the deck saver--too good a chance of the new nickname "stumpy", or a set of fingers that look like mine. All you need to do is slow the board down and keep from going over the falls. Herking up on the tail a little and laying your arm across it may help if the wave is full broken and you're dealing mostly with a wall of foam, but it can be a bad place to be if the wave is pitching out.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

1tuberider

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2010, 04:06:29 PM »
If you talking really big stuff   Help mr wizard

if your talking overhead to under 10 foot up and over works very well, even if you are in the water near the rear of your board. 

Went out about a week ago at our beach break in 8 foot surf.  No way to make it over standing so I sat on the tail of the board, sunk the tail and shot it up when the whitewater hits.  You bounce up and over in position for what ever you have to deal with next.  I got worked but made it out after pushing around 50 waves and had to prone paddle until I cleared the break zone.  Well worth it for some of the nice waves I had that day. 

When in over your head go prone and work your way out.  Forget the turtle move, there are much better options. 

maui wave warrior

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2010, 04:47:13 PM »
See Dave Kalama's website. He addresses this issue pretty well.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2010, 04:55:47 PM by maui wave warrior »

surfcowboy

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2010, 07:53:48 PM »
I'll got check his site again, thanks. I've seen the "getting out" stuff but I'm not talking about white water here.

To restate the topic, this is "holy sh$t I'm under a breaking wave that is 8-12 feet tall with no time to plan."

If I see big whitewater, I can deal and that one's really covered on this board. I'm looking for more disaster prep and survival than "how to get out".

"I've fallen on a large wave and when I looked up, there's a wave, with people on it, that I'm gonna take on the head."

My original scenario has been answered I think with one of the two solutions that seem the most popular.

1 - my fav, get off the board, grab it as best you can, hopefully near the rear and be a sea anchor as the wave crashes. For me this would be paddle in left hand, board in right.

2 - only for less steep waves - sit or lay on the board and prone paddle up and hopefully over.

The problem I had was that I found myself in a situation that I had no answer to and I punted, putting others in danger. Thanks to you guys, I now have options in my head for those times when there's no time to hesitate or think. I still need to see how steep I can paddle over, but there's only one way to find that out... ;)

surf monkey

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2010, 09:50:51 PM »
Cowboy

Becarfull with the grab the tail method. I use to do that and one day one head high wave took me and the board to the bottom  I had the board under my arm pulling it into my rib area to hold it. As we hit the bottom board first I came up in great pain, wind knocked out of me and after thinking I was lucky to get to shore. I had to deal with my wife in going to the good old doctor to find out I had two cracked ribs.

Sounds like your not using a leash?

I use to surf without one coming from the longboard back ground and liveing at a beach break thought the swim would do me good. Stand up boards are just to big to hang onto and i dont want to hurt someone so I always use a leash.

I used to use a dog collar in my leash loop for a rear handle it was cheap and worked good.

I have found surfing bigger surf you just have to take it on the head when a wave is breaking. I paddle to the wave and before it breakes I dive into the base of the wave then spread my arms out for the backwards drag from the board come up and move fast to get over the next one. But I have found there are times you just can't get out and head back to the beach and regroup.

Good luck   

newton333

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2010, 08:26:51 AM »
ya surf monkey is right sometimes u just gotta take it ive only ridden up to 15ft and was really not comfortable but i did get a few but i paid my dues. big time. im good in the 10 to 12ft. i try to really watch the sets and and take the biggest ones and sometimes wait on the inside. ive broken 5 leashes with sup so far and it just sucks especially when rocky shore line... uggghhh man that s a shitty feeling.   i use 2 kite strings and have a really heavy duty leash ive seen some mavs guys use 2 leashes. sick...

PonoBill

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2010, 10:25:28 AM »
We had some pretty big stuff a few days ago, not huge generally, but some sneaky big sets. I just refreshed my handle--put on a new DaKine kiteboard heel strap which is so good for this that they should market it as a tail strap. I got caught inside a couple of times in some lineup cleaners. From my comfortable tail handle perch I got to watch a tangle of boards and bodies being pummeled.

After about the third incident one guy paddled over and said "how are you doing that. Everyone is getting wiped out and nothing happens to you". I showed him my tail handle. He said "oh, I don't like the idea of that".

Wow.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Kendog

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2010, 11:17:36 AM »
Take the soul surfer approach...  When I surf I like to pretend that I'm not wearing a leash. Sometimes I'll be paddling up the face of a cresting wave and as it breaks I'll kick my board up and over the lip. Done right, the board launches out the back and the surfer performs an unfortunate backflip type motion over the falls. You may get worked impacting with the lip but when you pop up, your board will almost always be waiting for you out the back-often pointed out to sea! Also, this technique prevents leash pulls that can break equipment and end sessions. NOTE: This may be bad advice if you a surfing big waves in shallow water!

If it comes down to a choice of putting other surfers in danger or throwing yourself over the falls backwards it should be a no-brainer. Respect gets respect so pay your dues! Take your licks, Don't paddle out in the way, and above all respect other peoples safety first and you'll be welcome in almost any line-up.
Kendog

PonoBill

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Re: Caught in the big stuff - how to deal
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2010, 11:39:12 AM »
One of my favorite moves also. I find if I wait for the last possible second to kick, and have some good momentum, then sometimes I can get both the board and me over. Of course if it doesn't work you are laying on your back at the top of the falls, and the beating is substantially worse.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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