Stand up vs. lay down

[noworrieshawaii]

amen... well said....

[Lightning Bolt Maui]

 

   Just a guy who loves his roots and respects what his elders taught him.

I agree with Blane 
       I have lived in Hawaii now just over 1 year. Respect is a big thing here and its taught here still. Parent's around the world seems to have lost the art of teaching the youth respect. Why is that? Respect goes a long way. If you show respect you will get respect.
     I have found  the locals in the water friendly and respectful. My parents taught me respect and manners.  I try to be friendly and respectful I assume that is why they treat me the same way.
          Its a very simple rule.
          Treat people the way you want to be treated.  Show respect and you will get respect.

  Its the person not the board they ride.  I try to be generous in the water no matter what board i ride. I still enjoy seeing others get a good wave. 

 Parents should start teaching simple manners and respect to their kids again. It's still taught here in Hawaii! To bad they cant export that to the rest of the world.

[soul surf]

OK.  I will be perfectly honest.  I posted on this board as a Stand Up beginer but I am actually NOT a Stand Up(Yes I have tried it) paddler but a longtime surfer.  I haved lived the hassles between longboarders and shortboarders of which I do both.  I learned respect for the older surfers back in the late 60's and 70's when you had to learn respect.  I can understand that Stand Up paddlers have rights too.  I understand you are all having fun and I am all for it.  I am not going to reply to questions like why are Stand Up guys more dangerous?  I am not on this board to put down SUP's.  It is obvious that most people on this website are SUP's.  I was  simply going to voice the complaints of the Lay Down surfers to help both SUP's and Lay Downs understand each other and get along.  Yes, I do realize alot of you SUP's are surfers.  After seeing the replies and realizing some of the SUP's are in total denial as far as there actions in the water(I have seen it 1st hand) I have decided not to post on this board any longer unless I hear back from you saying you would like to know some of the surfers complaints.  Yes.  I would write them in a mature NON threatening manner. 

[SDS]

You have opened a can of worms here..  SUS vs traditional surfing....

With the advantage a SUS has over the surfer, why not go explore and find that next peak, or outer break, or go do a downwinder!!  Why piss off a bunch of surfers or jam up a crowded line-up when there are so many other options now opened up to a SUS/SUP.

The surfers here on maui are very worried about this next winter and the influx of new SUS/SUP joining the line-ups.  If it is not controlled, the SUS/SUP will be run out of the breaks.  Windsurfers cant go out till after 11 am, Tow-in surfing is supposed to avoid breaks where surfers are.  So go explore!!  there are plenty of other waves out there!!!

[Rand]

"We've got a pool and a pond. The pond would be good for you. "

-Caddyshack

Thanks for offering us the pond SDS.  Great sharing.  Truth be it known, we do often use remote breaks.  Why? Because at times (when they are working) they are great fun, and we love an uncrowded session as much as the next surfer.  At those times, the lineups will be less full than they otherwise would be. 

The reason the breaks you are referring to are popular, is that they are feel-good waves.  Easy in's, open shoulders, makeable sections.  Fun.  Offering up the mushcrumbler next door is a negligable concession, and using mobility as an arguement is erroneous.  You could paddle to these waves in 10 strokes, but never will.

Windsurfers cant go out till after 11 am, Tow-in surfing is supposed to avoid breaks where surfers are.

Stand up surfing is a traditional Hawaiian activity, as is Hula and Lei making.  As I am sure you will recall, the reason windsurfing has a 11:00 begin time was to protect the traditional Hawaiian activity of fishing.

So go explore!!  there are plenty of other waves out there!!!

We do.  That advice is open to anyone, on any board.  There are tons of unused waves just 20 yards from shore, and good parking.

We have a wall being erected on the Mexican border, another in Israel, and the Maui/Cali come lately woman in line in front of me at the Fish Market last night was boasting about her "exclusive gated community" on our North Shore.  Excluding who?  Me?  There are includers and excluders, simple as that.  A line in the water at San Onofre?  Want a link to a California real estate agency?

Stand Up paddling is a Hawaiian sport, being practiced by people of all ethnicities who have been drawn here, and to it, by an appreciation for the Hawaiian culture. 

[iwaterman]

soul surf:

if in fact all you wanted to do was voice the concerns of prone surfers to this forum, why didn't you just get right to it?  Deception will get you nowhere in life, and even less far in a forum of watermen who are obviously concerned about the welfare of all of surfing, not just SUP.   Instead of stirring the bees, join the group and HELP us create harmony in the water.


Aloha.

[soul surf]

Dear iwantabe,  I'm sorry I mean iwaterman,

I went into this thing the way I did because I wanted to see the replies of the SUP's and sure enough they were as I thought.  Very defensive.  Guilt I suppose.  Trying to justify there actions in the water.  I am excited that at least one response was acurate.  SDS.  I think.  Stay out of the surf pack.  Go explore.  Then the next reply by someone else  compared SUP with Hula and  the Hawaiian Tradition thing?  Is Lay Down surfing not a Hawaiian Tradition?  C'mon.  What justifies a waterman?  I longboard and shortboard and windsurf and bodysurf.  Do I qualify?  I don't think I like that term "WATERMAN".  Please know that it is the responsibility of the SUP's to talk with other SUP's and tell them @ the time in the water to not take over and hog waves.  I can tell you most the Stand Up guys are riding SUP's so they can get more waves and were unable to compete on longboards or shortboards. 

[shapeshifter]

it's pretty strange how the view can be so different when someone is on their belly as it is from up above. in my eyes the stand up's responses have been quite generous, only offering their peers a sense of humility and sharing as opposed to the defensiveness which this guy perceives. this proves out something i've encountered several times in life (and often notice in myself)... people hate what they see in others because they sense that same behavior in themselves.

my initial response to the original post on this thread was suspicion, it was either too obvious or clumsy so i practiced restraint, prudence allowed me to be willing to give allowances for youth or wait it out for this duplicity to be revealed.

it's all just a matter of perspective i guess?

respects...

[Rand]

Dear iwantabe,  I'm sorry I mean iwaterman,

We don't do that here.  This is an intelligent and caring community and ad hominem comments will not be allowed.

I sincerely believe that you have been extended more courtesy than might reasonably be expected, considering the fact that you appoached us from a position of deception, and followed with a stated desire for segregation at our expense.

I am excited that at least one response was acurate.  SDS.  I think.

In logic, one is supposed to shoot down the argument of the shill with haste, so here goes:  Complimenting SDS on his opinion, is tantamount to saying, "I agree with me."

In part, this forum serves to educate people on how to happily coexist in the surf.  I genuinely believe in the ideal that you are better to listen to what those with alternate opinions are saying, and trying to work with them. 

In that vein, I asked, "If everyone were obeying the rules of human courtesy and had taken the time to become accomplished with their respective gear, would you still advocate a segregated lineup?"

It had been your opinion that harmony in the lineup was impossible.

I asked, because if a harmonious, mixed lineup was indeed a goal you wanted to work towards, I would certainly do my part in joining with you to achieve it.

But responses such as, "Stay out of the surf pack." and "If it is not controlled, the SUS/SUP will be run out of the breaks." are not helpful. 

We will all be seeing each other in the lineup for a long time, so I would try to redirect to where this began. 

Let's work on both sides (if there are two sides) to teach respect through positive communication.

PS:

from your post:

Then the next reply by someone else  compared SUP with Hula and  the Hawaiian Tradition thing?  Is Lay Down surfing not a Hawaiian Tradition?  C'mon.

A direct answer.  Laydown surfing is a hawaiian tradition.  No one that I am aware of is trying to exclude laydown surfers from any lineup.

[Allan Cheateaux]

Dear iwantabe,  I'm sorry I mean iwaterman,

I can tell you most the Stand Up guys are riding SUP's so they can get more waves and were unable to compete on longboards or shortboards. 

The first comment just gets a big boo, and to the second...

I get/take wayyy more waves on my tiny fish or body surfing then I do at a lineup on a stand up (of which, is usually shorter than the guys rocking the logs next to me). Ive got no guilt over any of my actions. But I'm also not drawn to Stand up as a means of getting all the waves that come through. Thats not what its about, at least for me and most of the guys I talk to.

But lets try to leave the name calling at home, or at least on the surfer mag forum.

Honestly, I could really care about the "concerns" of "lay down" surfers. Because I am a "laydown", oops, I mean "surfer". And I'm just not that concerned. With a little bit of aloha, everyone can get some waves. You might just not be getting as many as you like, thats just a product of increasingly crowded lineups. High profile activities grab alot of attention, so blame us all you want with your inability to compete. And thats not meant in a spiteful fashion.
.

[paddlesurf.net]

Interesting... wasn't this same battle hashed out in the early 80's when the "modern" long board resurfaced? Same complaints, same conclusions...

In my experience, the heaviest (skill not lbs) surfers, the guys who really live it, breathe it and do it (not just talk about it- always an inverse relationship between amount of talking and amount of ability) don't really care what they're riding- and don't really care what you're riding as long as you do it with an understanding of the vehicle, the conditions and your place in the surf spot microcommunity.

Ride the board correctly- give a lot, take a few- shoot, these are pieces of advice for all surfers who want to do well at any surf spot.

Like it or not, we've all got a "place" out in the lineups of the "name" spots- great thing about SUP is you can just move on...

[Lightning Bolt Maui]

I think that the fact that soul surfer deceived us is really not the issue. He is trying to get some understanding and communication going between all surfers.  The way he went about it may not have been the best way but that might be the way he expresses himself.  Sometimes its easier and you get better results with a more positive approach. If you speak to someone with a tone of preaching or scolding. People will always go on defense mode.  If one looks for conflict one will always find conflict be it in the water or on the land.
      Its all about how the message is delivered. If someone is open and non confrontational they will get the same in return. But if someone comes at you with attitude and is telling you the way they think it should be then you react in defense.  It human nature. I know with me personal if you ask me something i will more then likely help out but if you tell me i have to do it i usually rebel. Its all in the delivery of the message.

The brotherhood that used to be common place in surfing and surfer's is long lost. Its a shame.

   I ride a standup because it is more fun then lay down paddling to me. I lay down paddle also and still love it. I longboard, short board and standup. I enjoy them all. 
   The thing i like most about the standup paddling world. They are glad to see other standup surfers. They say hello to each other ask about the others equipment and even offer to swap boards.  You dont see that anymore in lay down surfing.  I usually say hello to who ever is in the lineup be it short board longboard or standup. I have had countless lay down surfer when i say hello they look right at me see I am on a standup and dont reply to my hello. That already starts conflict in the water. 
   I lay down surf and standup surf at a break called woody's here on Maui. The wave is fun its not world class. But the crew of guys that surf it on a regular basis are all very friendly and courteous in the water. Its a social surf session. I look forward to surfing with that crew every time i go to woody's. Its good clean fun with good social interaction. I lay down surf there as well as standup surf there.  The regular crew respect each other and share with each other and it makes for fun for everyone long board, short board or standup board.

 Forever there is going to be conflict in the water and on the land its how you go about resolving them that makes the difference.

soulsurfer i will gladly share waves with you.  If the day comes that you want to try standup I will gladly let you try my board as i would imagine most standups would let a stranger try their boards. I never see any lay down surfers saying hay try my board. We are all brothers in the surfing wold. Let's all try to treat each other like brothers.

I hope everyone gets a nice set wave.

[Chan]

Soul Surf,
I understand that surfing is important to you, and that you truly are troubled by the recent changes. However, I have mixed emotions about your position.  I have heard the responses to your complaints by some of the lifelong Maui locals who are also SU’s. They do not want to hear you telling them (or anyone else for that matter) what, when, where, or how they can surf.    As stated repeatedly, the best resolution is to educate, and to foster mutual respect in the lineup.  Great progress can be made here.  As far as imposing your will on others, that is a losing proposition.  You have stated that the position you have taken on this issue has negatively impacted some of your longstanding relationships with some in the Maui surf community.  As your efforts have been counterproductive thus far, perhaps it is time for you to modify your approach, and adopt a more balanced position.

[soul surf]

Dear All,

On a positive note I must say most of you are obviously well educated judging by your writing skills and I mean that.  Please notice all the viewers on this Stand Up vs. Lay Down discussion board.  It has become the (Jerry Springer Show).  I am done.

[iwaterman]

Soul Surf,

Please accept my apologies if I offended you in any way.  I had only positive motivations in my last post, and genuinely hoped that you would join us in finding a way to be in the ocean harmoniously.

I hope that no one steals your passion and love for the ocean from you, for the minute this happens we fight a losing battle with ourselves. 

Aloha!