from *board 9'8" to 9' Mana?

[alap]

Last 3 years on Starboard Fish. 9'8"*30.

Now thinking about Mana 9'. Same width but 8" shorter.

I surf beach brake (Vanc. Island). I am actually very happy with Starboard performance, except I do avoid real late drops. But everything is in comparison, have you guys surfed both of those? how do compare? Any advice? Is it a good move?

[csx355]

I am also considering the 9'0 Mana as a 'Stablemate' to my 9'3" Hokua so any info or pics showing nose rocker would be most welcome.

ALAP - I also had a 9'8 extremist which was a great fun board and groundbreaking at the time. The Naish 9'3 however took my surfing onto another level. I think DW is now exploring the shaping talents of Harold Iggy.

[alap]

actually... I asked DW first. He is a highest authority on Manas, Hokuas and alike 
may be compared perhaps to DJ in this department  but DJ doesn't venture below 10'

the only thing, DW didn't surf 9'8", so thats the reason I am posting this question to a wider group. I don't think I regret a move, but it never hurts to ask.

[alap]

so, I bought Mana 9 and I surfed it eight days in a row in knee high to double overhead and I want to share with the forum, perhaps it will be useful for somebody else.
 
Before going into details I want to say that any review is affected by two factors: the reviewer level and the boards he surfed before. I met a guy another day with a Coreban board in the parking lot, and I asked him: “how is it?” And he says “Great! Great board!” and after a short pause: “It is my second day stand up paddling”. What that probably meant was: “I like this sport comparable with other things I done in my life… but the board – I have no idea”. Because when we say good or bad we actually think better or worse. We say great car and it means that it is much better than the previous one. But I digress…

So, my abilities: I am beginner moving to the ranks of intermediates. I just finished my fourth season, surfing about 35 days per season and probably 15 days per season on the lake. I am 170 lbs and I am 56 and I have lots of experience with windsurfing, downhill, kiting (mainly on snow but on the water too), but I never surfed – the necessity to swim fast and to swim all the time for a thrill of 5 second run was never appealing to me (add to this list the time u actually spend in the water, not on the water...). Here is what I can do: catch the wave frontside or backside at will. Do a bottom turn frontside, climb the wave and on the top do a pivot turn (no I cant do cutbacks), 90 degrees (or even 180 if necessary), and go for a next bottom turn. If the face allows I can do several linked pairs and if the wave allows even exit on another side of the wave still in the green water. Going backside I can’t turn. I lean on the paddle frontside pretty confidently (in fact cant do without it) but going backside I can not lean on it.

My boards: first summer I got 11 ft, 28" wide board and it was a complete disaster. The board was huge, was not fitting into the pocket, I still got tons of fun, but this was a very wrong board for me. At that time there was not much choice and the attitude was “dude, you need glide” (the actual advice I got from the very prominent shop). My second board was 9’8” Fish Extremist and in the first session I got as many waves as during previous summer. I am sure the board still can do more than I can, but I was thinking about shorter board for a while, plus my 25 year old son decided finally to give it a try and to go with me. So after getting advice from DW who knows so much about different boards, tried and build several of them, is my age, started for years ago, and is a ahead of me skillwise,  I got Mana 9’

One important thing, the color, a lot of choices there, so I decided to go custom and got it in yellow, yellow/white to be precise.

Here is my comparison with 9’8” fish.

1.   Catching wave, Mana does it easier, and you can catch them later too. The ability for an earlier catch is the same
2.   Crossing the white water going out – much easier on Mana. The narrow nose helps for sure. I was able even pass through the head high that started to close (like around 5” of white water already barreled).
3.   Stability – yes it is a bit less stable, but still well within my comfort zone. From the day one fish was feeling too long, i.e. too stable length wise. With Mana it is right balance between the length and the width – I don’t want it shorter and I don’t want it narrower. And this feel was from the first second.
4.   Tracking straight (and this is surprising!) Mana is much better. It is shorter and gives less yaw. May be it has to do with overall shape and with my technique, but it is certainly better and this is important when you have to sprint.
5.   Pearling, it is much more difficult to pearl the Mana. I guess it is the majic rocker? But it has great resilience and it recovers superbly. Check this photo were I did screwed up pretty bad.
http://picasaweb.google.com/alapalap09/Late_drop#5517029553988590674
 (check the next picture in the sequence for the crater in the water from the QB paddle)
6.   The board prompts you for more, you do turn more aggressively and it responds, you add and it responds even more. For example I had improved my bottom turns immensely – it is less lean on the paddle, but still load on the board, pure surfing. When I did it first time it spit me up to the lip and back in the ocean, what a feel. It has a very lovely feel and turns much faster.
7.   Fins. Mana has 3 high quality bamboo fins, that seems to be the right size – not too much drive but no spinning out (side sliding the tail). Starboard had included only one central fin that is 9” and too big. More importantly it left me completely in the woods about sidebiters – what size? Where to buy? So I spent 50$ for one set, than 50$ for another, then bought smaller central fin, and still there is no comparison with the factory setup from Naish.
8.   Handle. Naish handle is deep and comfortable, and it is very well balanced, I can carry it by the handle for long distance. Starboard’s handle is shallow and I can use it only for getting in/out of the water.
9.   Bag – it came in a very descent bag, that is designed to fit exactly this board. With Starboard instead of a bag I received a catalog. It took me three months before Trident answered, yes we can arrange a bag for 180$US (plus GST, shipping, duties). Thanks, but no thanks.
10.   9’0” in the bag fits nicely inside my CRV, while 9’8” only with an open hatch (and latest CRVs don’t even have the hatch that opens).

Overall, I know that this is a board for me. Both boards are good and comparable, perhaps if you are a beginner or on a heavier side the 9’8” is better (when the stability is a paramount), but after the 4 summers the 9’0” Mana works much better for me. In fact I was ready for it much much earlier. During last week I made huge leap in my skills. And when we changed with my sons the things that I learned on Mana I was able to transfer to Fish. BTW by the end of the week my son was were I was after two summers – catching countless number of waves, going down the line and learning how to lean on the paddle in the turn. He is young, way more athletic than me and he started on the right gear and got some invaluable advice from his daddy  . BTW he also said that Mana is easier in catching waves and in crossing white water. He is a bit taller and 30 lbs less than me.

Here is another album:
http://picasaweb.google.com/alapalap09/Surf_chesthigh_ukee#

hope this will be useful for somebody

[obxaddict]

Thanks for the review alap.  I had similar thoughts after trying the 9' mana.  I came off of a 10'5 drive so the difference is more extreme for me. 

Question, since the deck pad is only 3/4 is it OK to wax the nose or better to use nonskid for nose rides?

[csx355]

Good stuff alap thanks for taking the time to post this and qualify the situation - really helpful. Like you I have had a 9'8  Starboard although for the last 18months I have been riding a 9'3" Naish Hokua.

I have just ordered a 9'0 Mana to complement the 9'3 and hopefully learn some new tricks and techniques which I'm hoping the fatter nose will help with. Trouble is I have to wait until November.

[baddog]

I paddle my 9'8" around the bay for fun.  I'm a good surfer and 160, but the Starboard has way too much volume for me to surf on.  I've been waiting for feedback on the 9'0", and it looks like I'll be gaming a Mana soon.  You mentioned custom colors which I've never heard of before.  What colors are available and how long does that take?

[Dwight (DW)]

You mentioned custom colors which I've never heard of before.  What colors are available and how long does that take?

It's a joke. Any color you want, as long as it's yellow.

[SUP Sports ®]

Factor it in...or spin it... any way you like, but IMO comparing 2010 Board A from one company to 2008 Board B from another company (3 year old design) of different genres is just that...take it with a grain of salt...one reporter's opinion...

3 years in SUP time is kinda like 3 years in computer time...there's been a lot of H20 under the bridge...;-)

Alap did a pretty decent job comparing...but, they are not in the same class other than they are under 10'...a better, and more contemporary comparison would be the 9' Naish Mana to the 2010 9' Starboard Converse...or, even better the 9'1" Starboard Pro...and, even better than that the 2011 Starboard 9'1" Pro...seen here piloted by Sean Poynter at Puerto Escondido...

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2010/09/sean-poynter-mexican-pipeline.html

Adding to that...the original 9'8" Starboard Fish was groundbreaking...it morphed into quite a different board than the one being discussed...with round pin...Dave Muir and Tama Audibert piloted both 2010 Starboard 9'8" versions, Element and Pro, to 1st and 2nd place at Sapinus Pro in Tahiti...

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2010/05/dave-muir-wins-sapinus-pro-tahiti.html

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2010/07/underground-chargers.html

[alap]

wardog, pls. read my preambula. I am not comparing boards per se. and I say very nice words about 9'8" and I do not want to offend anybody. I just give my impressions, and those impressions are useless without a previous background , experience level and history. it so happened that my previous board was 9'8". and it is very nice board indeed. but Mana 9' is noticably better for me, and I explained why. and I am not planning to go into mexican pipe or any other pipe or go into Tahiti for competition and die there.

obx: I dont know. I am happy within 3/4 of the boar and plan to stay there. but first time I'll step on the nose and slip I'll buy nonskid for the nose. i hate wax.

[DavidJohn]

actually... I asked DW first. He is a highest authority on Manas, Hokuas and alike 
may be compared perhaps to DJ in this department  but DJ doesn't venture below 10'

BTW.. I have a nice 9.0 custom board that's about 31" wide.. and I've also ordered a new 9.0 Hokua.. Can't wait.. (about 14 more sleeps to go) .. 

If I find the new 9.0 Hokua too tippy for me I plan to swap it for the new 9.0 Mana.. 

DJ

[csx355]

To be fair to alap I dont think his review read anything like' buy this board it's better' more like an opinion of where he is now. As Supsports said the 9'8" Extremist was a groundbreaking board and one that a lot of people, myself including cut our teeth on, many will still be using them and as such alap's direct comparison is valid.

The Starboard 9'1" was on my radar as a next board option but I have had such good service from my 9'3 Hokua that I went down the Naish route again. . Maybe next time, one things for sure there are a lot more options out there now than there was 3 years ago - alap's and other who are prepared to write this stuff does tend to give a real world viewpoint to brochure speak.

[marky]

Hi wardog you said
Dave Muir and Tama Audibert piloted both
2010 Starboard 9'8" versions, Element and Pro, to 1st and 2nd place at Sapinus Pro in Tahiti...[

Dave said in a interview with scotty that he was riding a 9.8 by 29 fishtail which has never been a starboard production board Iam sure Dave knows what board hes on

[SUP Sports ®]

Hi wardog you said
Dave Muir and Tama Audibert piloted both
2010 Starboard 9'8" versions, Element and Pro, to 1st and 2nd place at Sapinus Pro in Tahiti...[

Dave said in a interview with scotty that he was riding a 9.8 by 29 fishtail which has never been a starboard production board Iam sure Dave knows what board hes on

Hi marky,
Didn't see the interview that you are referring to...but, you can clearly see in the interview that I posted that he was riding a round pin...

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2010/05/dave-muir-wins-sapinus-pro-tahiti.html

Also, in the Underground Chargers link, Starboard states what I said regarding use of production 9'8" models...dunno the particulars of whether they were ridden in every heat or what...

I've only chatted with Scotty about other things...but, will ask him about that...
I do know that Scotty travels with lots of boards...a mix of production and prototypes...
I was with him on Kauai in April...he is a relentless tester...it is a lot of work...

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2010/07/underground-chargers.html

There was a Starboard 9'8" x 28.5" Fish tail production board called the Superfish...see attached pics...and, links below...

http://blog.surfingsports.com/2008/02/wavesailing-98-starboard-fish-sup.html
http://blog.surfingsports.com/2008/11/starboard-fish-vid-clip.html

[SUP Sports ®]

wardog, pls. read my preambula. I am not comparing boards per se. and I say very nice words about 9'8" and I do not want to offend anybody. I just give my impressions, and those impressions are useless without a previous background , experience level and history. it so happened that my previous board was 9'8". and it is very nice board indeed. but Mana 9' is noticably better for me, and I explained why. and I am not planning to go into mexican pipe or any other pipe or go into Tahiti for competition and die there.

obx: I dont know. I am happy within 3/4 of the boar and plan to stay there. but first time I'll step on the nose and slip I'll buy nonskid for the nose. i hate wax.

I did read your words Alap...that's why I said what I did...

"Here is my comparison with 9’8” fish.

1.   Catching wave, Mana does it easier
2.   Crossing the white water going out – much easier on Mana.
3.   Stability – yes it is a bit less stable
4.   Tracking straight (and this is surprising!) Mana is much better.
5.   Pearling, it is much more difficult to pearl the Mana.
6.   same...
7.   same...
8.   same...
9.   same...
10. same...

You took 10 points to contrast a board from 3 years ago...direct comparisons...a board that I remember you had problems with and went straight to the forums...I also remember spending lots of time with emails and phone calls with you before you bought it from someone else...;-)

Point is...we all have bias...

Whatevers, all I'm saying is that it would be simple to just state that I'm coming off Board X and this is what I found about Board Y...instead of point by point contrast with only that one board...I've ridden dozens of boards that I can compare it to...there are more appropriate comparisons...you also have 3 more years of SUP experience and that board was 15 liters more stated volume...prolly more since Naish overstates volume...then you have fish tail versus squash...and, fin setups...etc...not that any of this stuff is *real* science...but, I do have a science and engineering background...I think you as well...;-)

I do know the Naish 9' Mana...my sales manager rides one...we sell them in the shop...he also rides a Starboard...
I still have a 9'5" Mana...somewhere...I dunno zackly where...haven't ridden it in awhile...that would have been a better comparison in terms of feel in a head to head with the 9'8" Starboard Fish...a board shape that was fazed out years ago...the 9'8" currently in the line has gone through multiple design iterations...in the choice between 9'5" Mana and 9'8" Fish,  I personally would go with the Starboard 9'8" Fish from 3 years ago...I'll save you the gory point by point details...;-)