Author Topic: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...  (Read 10171 times)

Shawn Michael

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What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« on: May 13, 2009, 09:41:24 PM »
I hear all the time that people are suggesting you can paddle your SUP by pushing your top hand forward using your bottom arm as a pivot point.  I find this totally bizzar.

"you are probably pulling back with the lower hand too much or too hard.  This pulling motion strains the tendons way more than the pushing down with the top hand.  What others have suggested is appropriate - try not to pull too hard with the bottom hand, but to push more with the top hand (pushing forward almost like a punch).  The bottom hand is simply the pivot to transfer the energy from the top hand to the paddle blade."

I saw Jimmy Terrel for coaching and asked him about this and he looked at me like I was nucking futz.

Quickblade how to SUP / Jim Terrell  

Clear shots of paddle stroke at 2:35, 4:12, 5:30...how could you get any power using the bottom hand as a pivot point and paddling your board with tricep extension?  90%l the pull comes from the bottom hand the top hand just sets the blade and keeps it at the proper angle of attack to the water...

When I was at E.T. surf the guy was demoing SUP stroke the same way, using the bottom hand as a pivot and punching the top hand???  

Paddle-Plappe

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 01:16:07 AM »
THis is an other question about paddle stroke. As i was paddling yesterday, i have got this feeling: kinda'  falling backward  before the end of the stroke  gives an extra power. Did anyone already got this feeling?

seasweeper

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 01:23:44 AM »
I hear all the time that people are suggesting you can paddle your SUP by pushing your top hand forward using your bottom arm as a pivot point.  I find this totally bizzar.

"you are probably pulling back with the lower hand too much or too hard.  This pulling motion strains the tendons way more than the pushing down with the top hand.  What others have suggested is appropriate - try not to pull too hard with the bottom hand, but to push more with the top hand (pushing forward almost like a punch).  The bottom hand is simply the pivot to transfer the energy from the top hand to the paddle blade."

I saw Jimmy Terrel for coaching and asked him about this and he looked at me like I was nucking futz.



Clear shots of paddle stroke at 2:35, 4:12, 5:30...how could you get any power using the bottom hand as a pivot point and paddling your board with tricep extension?  90%l the pull comes from the bottom hand the top hand just sets the blade and keeps it at the proper angle of attack to the water...

When I was at E.T. surf the guy was demoing SUP stroke the same way, using the bottom hand as a pivot and punching the top hand???  

Thanks for posting that vid-some great info there-I've sent it to a number of friends new to SUPing.

Gotta' say I agree with your take on stroke method.

Shawn Michael

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 02:04:24 AM »
I did not mean to be "inflammatory" or anything, I just do not see how you can generate power.  Those pulling and twisting muscles are so strong and pushing forward with the top hand is just to keep the blade oriented at the best angle in the water so you can hold the water while you pull yourself past the blade which is technically what is supposed to happen...if the blade slips in the water you are just creating turbulence and not moving.  I figure Jimmy would be the authority because of his extenstive olympic background and that C1 is probably the closest thing to SUP along with OC.  He just missed beating Chuck Patterson and I know he has little time to train...with the conditions here is southern california it is not the best surfer or the guy who can read the sea that wins but the strongest "motor"

stoneaxe

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 04:48:41 AM »
For me I've found that the top hand punch is OK for maintaining glide on a swell but I simply can't seem to generate the power that I do pulling with the bottom hand. I've actually started to use 3 different strokes and combinations of them to spread out the muscles used and reduce fatigue.

I use the bottom hand pull most of the time, feels most natural, generates good power. The top hand punch when I want to rest a bit but keep going and/or on a swell. The 3rd is hardly using the arms at all but focusing on the core muscles....doing crunches to paddle. Seems strange at 1st but gives your shoulders a break and still generates good power.

The most powerful stroke I've been able to come up with is a combination of all 3. When I really paddle hard it has elements of all of them in the there.

Paddle....that little falling back feeling is actually extending your stroke a few inches. I noticed it 1st while punching whitewater when I'd naturally weight the back foot. By rocking back slightly at the end of a regular stroke you add a few inches to how long your paddle is in the water pushing.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 04:57:15 AM by stoneaxe »
Bob

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diesel

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 10:09:33 AM »
ShawnMichael, coming from paddling OC-1 for a number of years, the Todd Bradley stroke of punching forward and using the bottom hand as a pivot makes sense and is the stroke I try to do.  What is interesting is how complex the SUP stroke is.  Like Stoneaxe was saying, he combines three different strokes and alternates them as well.  I try not to pull with the lower hand because I have already got the infamous tennis elbow  from the pulling.  It went away when I stopped pulling with my lower hand and got a smaller paddle. 

Paddle-Papple, regarding the falling down stroke.  I know what you are getting at because I am trying to use gravity to aid my stroke as well by bending the knees as I stroke to drive the blade down instead of only using muscle power.  This kind of works as well.  It is a similar idea because we are both using gravity.  Using gravity is interesting because you can't do it sitting down on your OC-1 like when you are standing up.  This could be an advantage that the SUP stroke has over OC-1.

Shawn Michael

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 11:41:54 AM »
Yes, I think standing up with all the ways you can use your body that you cannot sitting has some advantages....though almost everyone says no, I feel that if I could stand in an OC-1 I would be able to paddle is faster than sitting because I have a longer and more powerful range....but it might just be that it feels harder and heavier...in any case, on a windless day my 2.5 mile flat water time on my 18x28 planing board is not drastically slower than my time on my 22x14 OC-1 so I think with the right board I could keep up in the flat with the understanding that I am pretty slow in the OC-1.

Diesel hope you keep after ways to heal your elbow.  I have had my boughts with tendonitis in the elbow, but it has always been on the inside (golfers elbow) from pushing down hard with the top hand...when I reach a certain number of miles, I start paying for it, but I have been so busy that I am just trying to get out 1-2 times a week so it is gone.

Shawn Michael

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 11:45:15 AM »
Looking at Todd B I guess another thing is that the punch stroke is a bit faster cadence and maybe good for folks with supercardio....the reason I feel in love with SUP is the long heavy whole body pull vs the tip/tap feeling I get from a double blade in a kayak

diesel

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 01:09:31 PM »
ShawnMichael,  I think my elbow was golfers elbow too because it is on the inside like yours.  It is better now with the smaller paddle and no pulling with the bottom hand.

Shawn Michael

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 11:03:00 PM »
For what it is worth. my physical therapist who has treated outrigger paddlers said that the golfers elbow is more commonly aggrivated by driving down with the top hand.  Hope it gets well.

Hegsra

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2009, 07:16:10 AM »
Interesting post- being fairly new to SUP  I've found I incorporate the lower hand pull method.  It seems to generate the most power for me but the irony is that I'm right hand dominant and my left side stroke is stronger and more comfortable. I wonder why that is?

1tuberider

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2009, 05:36:05 AM »
I think arm power is about 25% of available power for the pull.  I use my whole body for most paddling. My arms are better for maintaining paddle vertical position (top hand) and paddle height for me, top hand is around eye nose level, and how much power I generate from lower hand placement. 

My real power comes from truck twist that starts at ankles and ends at neck. 

My speed comes from how fast I can repeat the stroke or hopping on the next glide.

Interesting subject Shawn.  I think the best technique may be, yet to be discovered, but one thing is certain, the best technique is going to use your entire body.

Paddle-Plappe

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2009, 10:41:31 AM »
I'm right hand dominant and my left side stroke is stronger and more comfortable. I wonder why that is?
Surfer may be goofy foot or normal foot, paddler may be right sided or left sided.
look at this what side topic

one thing is certain, the best technique is going to use your entire body.
include: biceps, triceps or quadriceps of the legs

« Last Edit: May 17, 2009, 10:55:19 AM by Paddle-Plappe »

Shawn Michael

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2009, 04:46:26 PM »
One thing is for sure, SUP makes you strong.  After pulling hour after hour on the 84inch with the 10 inch blade I just rip the short paddle on the OC-1 where once upon a time it felt heavy.  That is how I got on the SUP...via a discussion of the best "strength training" for OC...forget dragging tennis balls behind your canoe, SUP is where it is at, and I liked it so much that my OC-1 is dusting up.  Incidently after all this SUPing I have been surprise to be hitting personal records on rowing drills with the weights...on the 1 arms rows the torso it just so stable.   

Byronmaui

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Re: What the $)*%_*......SUP paddle stroke, again...
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2009, 12:51:58 AM »
Might wanna check this vid out......Some paddling here


 


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