Author Topic: Flat water board with deep recessed deck  (Read 1936 times)

Luc Benac

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Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« on: March 14, 2017, 08:20:43 PM »
I started paddling an Ace-GT which has a fairly deep recessed deck probably about 3 inches from the waterline.
Outside of the Ace, I thing that the Sprint has a similar recessed deck.
The new NSP Ninja might also be similar.
Is there any other flat water sup that you know of with a  deck very low above the waterline?
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supthecreek

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2017, 09:01:52 PM »
This deep enough?  :)

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Luc Benac

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2017, 09:28:18 PM »
Yes  :o I was not really thinking about the Ace's clones but rather at a flat water oriented design.
* Flat / Infinity Blackfish 14' x 24" Twin to Win LA (For Sale)
* All-around / Infinity Blackfish 14' x 26" Twin to Win LA
* Distance / Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" VMG Mako
* Downwind / Riviera RP-14 DW Carbon Innegra 14' x 26"

KeNalu Mana 90 & 82

pdxmike

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2017, 10:44:56 PM »
This Mistral Vortex looks like deck is pretty low:



Another (but I don't think really for pure flatwater) was the old Naish Catalina: 



I think some of the recent fat-nosed boards have decks that are deceptively low--meaning it's not obviously low like the ones above where the deck is sunken way below the rails.  Imagine taking the Mistral (or a Starboard) and shaving the rails down to deck level, and you'd have a shape similar to several fat-nosed boards--bulbous in front, shallow behind, sort of like a regrettable plastic surgery.  I can't think of any specifically for flatwater, thought.

Area 10

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2017, 11:05:24 PM »
Well there is the original standup canoe: the K15.

Designers have tended to pair dugouts with pintails. This is fast, but compromises buoy turns. And since many flat water races are big on buoy turns, this would be a comprising feature. So what flat water racers probably need now is a narrow wide-tailed dugout with a displacement bow. I'm not sure we've seen one of this yet -?

It's a strange occurrence that dugouts have become more common for ocean boards than flat water ones IMO. It makes most sense to have a dugout in conditions where falls will be rare. If you fall in a tight race in a dugout, your chances of the finish you can be proud of paddle off to the horizon with the rest of the pack. Clambering back into a dugout is an undignified business.

Am I the only one thinking that the current move to dugouts resembles Jim Terrel's warning a few years ago that unregulated racing designs in regard to dugout depths and widths will lead to designs that look ugly and are too tricky for the average Joe and Joanna to paddle, and this will start limiting the appeal of racing and cause dwindling numbers? The videos of recent races look like the paddlers have legs that have been cut off below the knees. They look somehow weirdly short. It's not a flattering or aspirational look, it's a dorky look, to be brutally honest. Jim's thesis was that dorky-looking and difficult leads to an exodus of numbers.

But we've had this "boardsports vs. paddlesports" argument before, and there were passionate and reasoned arguments on both sides. So I probably shouldn't poke that hornet' nest.

GlideMarko

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2017, 12:41:22 AM »

ukgm

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2017, 01:59:35 AM »
I started paddling an Ace-GT which has a fairly deep recessed deck probably about 3 inches from the waterline.
Outside of the Ace, I thing that the Sprint has a similar recessed deck.
The new NSP Ninja might also be similar.
Is there any other flat water sup that you know of with a  deck very low above the waterline?

The question is, do you go for a dugout (SB, RRD, etc) or do you go for an open deck where you can have a wider stance to increase stability that way ? (i.e. Fanatic Strike, JP) ?
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GlideMarko

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2017, 02:36:02 AM »
Also,
The question regarding stability : dugout (with lower standing position but narrower) or open deck (with higher standing position but wider) on the same length/wide board.
I will compare 2016 SB AllStar (14x23) vs 2017 SB Sprint (14x23) in a few days.

yugi

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2017, 03:20:03 AM »
...
Another (but I don't think really for pure flatwater) was the old Naish Catalina: 

...

I know that board well. Very fast on flat. OK for v light downbreeze. A nightmare in chop.

I heard Robby didn't like that twitchyness and yanked it. Are we witnessing a comeback now we all got better?

I find it very hard to see the shape of Roberto Ricci's Razzle Dazzle with that color scheme. It sure is recognizable on the water, but not pretty.

ukgm

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2017, 05:01:11 AM »
...
Another (but I don't think really for pure flatwater) was the old Naish Catalina: 

...

I know that board well. Very fast on flat. OK for v light downbreeze. A nightmare in chop.

I heard Robby didn't like that twitchyness and yanked it. Are we witnessing a comeback now we all got better?

I find it very hard to see the shape of Roberto Ricci's Razzle Dazzle with that color scheme. It sure is recognizable on the water, but not pretty.

I love the look at the RRD. Reminds me of automotive concept cars using urban camoflage to confuse the journalists. It looks a lot like an older starboard sprint and there is littl information about it - even on their own website.
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yugi

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2017, 07:22:15 AM »
^ oh wow   :o

A friend has one (spancered). He's fast. Then again he'd be fast on anything.
He does like it and has no complaints. Uses it for downwinds too.

Luc Benac

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2017, 07:51:25 AM »
I started paddling an Ace-GT which has a fairly deep recessed deck probably about 3 inches from the waterline.
Outside of the Ace, I thing that the Sprint has a similar recessed deck.
The new NSP Ninja might also be similar.
Is there any other flat water sup that you know of with a  deck very low above the waterline?

The question is, do you go for a dugout (SB, RRD, etc) or do you go for an open deck where you can have a wider stance to increase stability that way ? (i.e. Fanatic Strike, JP) ?

I was modestly thinking both :-)
i.e. I would be curious to try a 2014 Sprint 14' x 26" and if it actually feels any different to paddling the Ace-GT (or the BF 14x26 which it should been totally different designs)
I think that I have established that 26" is the "right" comfortable width for me in the sense that while I can paddle something narrower I am starting to give a lot more credence to comfort and enjoyment. I had forgotten how nice paddling when you are low on the water is. The BF is fairly good at under 5" in the standing area and the BF 26" is staying with me period.
The BF 24" is plenty stable and I do not go in the water. It is fun when wanting a challenging paddle or on flat water but there is just something about narrow that does not work for me and keeping a board just for the odd days when wanting a challenging paddle is a little bit of a waste.
I do not race and the only races I "participate" in do not include buoy turns but distance over 7km. And my participation is mainly a chance to share some time with paddlers friends.
* Flat / Infinity Blackfish 14' x 24" Twin to Win LA (For Sale)
* All-around / Infinity Blackfish 14' x 26" Twin to Win LA
* Distance / Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" VMG Mako
* Downwind / Riviera RP-14 DW Carbon Innegra 14' x 26"

KeNalu Mana 90 & 82

ukgm

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2017, 08:00:05 AM »
^ oh wow   :o

A friend has one (spancered). He's fast. Then again he'd be fast on anything.
He does like it and has no complaints. Uses it for downwinds too.

The website says the 25 width is 280 litres. That's ideal for bigger paddlers.
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yugi

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2017, 08:04:09 AM »
They are quite thick.


ukgm

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Re: Flat water board with deep recessed deck
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2017, 09:00:10 AM »
They are quite thick.

I've never seen one in the flesh. Has anyone paddled one ?
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