Author Topic: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi  (Read 1334 times)

surfcowboy

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Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« on: March 08, 2017, 07:35:08 PM »
Ok guys, since a few of us are likely going to be bagging some foils and other foolishness I wanted to get and share some info on pumps.

I've seen the reverse aquarium pump hack (google it on Swaylocks) but some are saying to buy something bigger. I'd rather not clog up the garage too much more and since I do like 2 boards a year I'm guessing I could use something smaller.

Who's got what and who's used what? No compressor hacks or shop vacs here please. We don't wanna break more than we make. ;)

Also if you're posting eBay links which will expire, let's copy the make and model info here so future shapers can still use the data.

supuk

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2017, 07:55:12 PM »
Anyone looking to get a vac setup should just start here

http://www.veneersupplies.com/

PonoBill

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2017, 08:08:13 PM »
That's where I got mine. I used a bigger tank and vacuum breaker tank than they suggest, but I used their bits.

There website has become a little confusing and they seem more focused on selling their $400 complete system than the kits. But that's a pretty capable vac system for 400 bucks. 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 08:18:32 PM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supuk

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2017, 10:10:14 PM »
That's where I got mine. I used a bigger tank and vacuum breaker tank than they suggest, but I used their bits.

There website has become a little confusing and they seem more focused on selling their $400 complete system than the kits. But that's a pretty capable vac system for 400 bucks.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Vacuum__Press__Items/Vacuum__Press__Parts/

http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Vacuum__Press__Items/Brass__Fittings/

PonoBill

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2017, 10:36:04 PM »
Yeah, the featured complete setup is continuous running, which isn't great. To do a demand pump you need this: http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Project-EVS-Auto-Cycling-Pump-Vacuum-Press-Kit.html

and your choice of pumps, probably this: http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Vacuum-Pump---53-CFM-120v-AC.html About $430 total. You'll need a few hardware store parts and a carry frame, but it's an easy, fun build and you wind up with a great tool.

My most valuable tool for bagging is my ultrasonic leak detector, which lets me find leaks of all sizes very quickly. I bought on of these: http://www.valuetesters.com/inficon-whisper-ultrasonic-leak-detector.html but this looks good and it's a third of the price:  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultrasonic-Leak-Detector-Transmitter-Gases-Liquid-Leak-Sensor-Portable-Tool-/111994758137?hash=item1a136863f9
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 10:48:24 PM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

jrandy

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 04:19:45 AM »
I have a small surplus store Gast pump, gauge, homemade resin trap, and fancy-schmancy vacuum bag port that was super reasonable at my local composite supply shop. Whole mess less than 100$ US. It works well on 'bread box' or 'beer case' size projects so doing a foil or mast would not be a problem. I have yet to try it on a whole board.

http://pushheretosavealife.com/
Be safe, have fun. -J

Bean

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 06:28:55 AM »
jrandy, I like that bag connector.

Has anyone used a vacuum-generator (air powered)?

https://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/80059710

PonoBill

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2017, 09:51:08 AM »
Nice job. Add an accumulator, an unloader valve and a pressure switch and you'd have a cycling setup. Gast pumps are excellent. You can do much larger jobs with the setup you have if you seal the object carefully and pre-draw the vacuum with a vacuum cleaner. You pump is probably about 2 CFM or less. If you have a 14 X 25" board with a loose bag you might have to draw down 30+ cubic feet of air before the bag tightens. Fifteen minutes of pumping if there's no leak. I start any bigger project with a vacuum cleaner in parallel. You can get the bag loosely deflated around the object, correct any wrinkles or issues, and even find larger air leaks. Then your pump only has to pull down perhaps a cubic foot of air, which it will do in less than a minute. If you get all the leaks plugged your little rig will hold vacuum just fine. Sometimes my cycling pump will be off for an hour.

The venturi pumps are fine if you don't mind all the noise, not just from your compressor running nonstop but also the venturi screaming. You need a pretty big compressor to make them work well, and the don't pull super low, but they're cheap. Unless you consider the wear on your compressor.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supuk

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2017, 02:18:41 PM »
this is mine reposted from the other thread, still got one thing I want to do and that's wire in a second vac switch ( one to do top and one to do bottom) to reduce the size of the dead none which is currently about 5 inHg difference. Always go for a bigger tank than you think as you can not store any were as much vacuum as you can compressed air.

This was a kit form veneer supplies with a few extra brass fittings and a tank from a old compressor purchased of ebay for $20. The pump was a donation from the farther in law,  Its fine on small ish board but needs a shop vac to get large volumes out when doing 12-16' boards.

Which I had built it years ago rather than mess with all the fridge and aquarium pumps!

PonoBill

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2017, 04:05:04 PM »
Always go for a bigger tank than you think as you can not store any were as much vacuum as you can compressed air.

That a bit that folks forget. My 250# portable compressor has a 3cu ft tank. At 250# it's storing 66 cu ft of air. A 3 cu ft vacuum can suck up 3 cu ft of air at STP.

The thing about tools is that you can fuss around with alternatives to the real stuff for quite a while, until the day you finally bite the bullet, and then you regret all the bullshit semi-adequate stuff you lived with. I have two drawers full of sanders that my Festool sander finally replaced--well, that and a big 8" polisher with soft pads. They're just junk, and they cost me about the same over the years as the Festool that replaces them. Not always true, but generally, yeah.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 09:04:59 PM »
That Gast LOA-P175-AA looks like a great option for a starter. eBay for under $100 and then get some kit parts and make it happen.

This is exactly what I was hoping to get out of this. The whole process seems like magic from the outside, but then again, so did glossing a board a couple of years ago.

TallDude

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 10:36:38 PM »
I got most of the pieces... I think? Enough to crush some foam.

What other parts do I need, as far as the pump setup?

It may be overhead to you, but it's waist high to me.

Learn Shape 3D or share your Shape 3D knowledge here- http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,27553.0.html

Bean

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2017, 06:11:47 AM »
Here is my budget-vacuum set up extracting some water from the rail of my Icon (2014).  The HF pump mists oil like crazy after 10-15min run time.  Other than that, it works Ok and I've been able to direct the mist outside with a simple garden hose clamped to the exhaust (filter).   

PonoBill

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2017, 11:15:33 AM »
Run a chunk of that hose up to the rafters. there isn't enough velocity for the oil to rise more than about two feet, but eight is better. The oil will drain back into the pump. My little cyclic separator is just my way of keeping the same solution compact--and being a car nerd. It's what we do with the vents on dry sump race car engines. You can Y connect the vent to the filler cap for better refilling, or plug the vent and just vent the filler with a hose. Same, same.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 11:17:48 AM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Bean

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Re: Vacuum bagging rigs - mini to maxi
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2017, 12:42:36 PM »
I'll give that a shot, but may look for an oil-less pump.

 


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