Author Topic: Clearwater foil kit  (Read 1268 times)

supuk

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2017, 08:43:10 PM »
 for a light weight core the mast which the main issue is stiffness down the length 6-8 plys of 200g uni to  then 3-4 layers of 200g plain weave running at the 45 to stop any twist Per Side.

for the fus. the main issue is torsional stiffness, I use something more solid for that as it make mounting points easier, for birch ply I use 1-2 layers down the length of uni then 2-3 layers of 200 plain weave on the 45.

This layup will give you something that is fairly solid, I have tried less.. The main issues you will find are getting it solid around the joints between the board and wings.

Try less by all means experiment, I did and my results are posted above.


supuk

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2017, 08:56:57 PM »
Ah, UK saving us from broken parts.

There are crazy forces on that joint between the mast and fuselage if you think about it.

I'll take the pine for my first one since I'm going to crash the hell out of it and I'm ok with the 4 point mount as I'll probably just screw it to a Pono skin (trademark that man) and duct tape it to the bottom of my board for the first tests.

Looks like I'll be building an aquarium pump vac bag rig soon. Get ready for some crazy shop pics.

Aquarium pumps work fine on small parts like foils if you get the right one and you make sure you use new bags and get no leaks. I have used all numbers of different pumps over the years and having something that has power in reserve as it can save you time and money if you end up chasing leaks and don't get much pressure. stick a thing on ebay for a gast pump or similar that does not use oil and is nice and quiet, they come up from time to time quite cheap then ether just use with a bleeder valve and gauge or  go on veneer supplies to get inspiration or order one of there kits.

dns

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2017, 09:22:01 PM »
Automotive A/C pumps. Cheap and powerful.  8)

supuk

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2017, 10:30:18 PM »
Pono, post up that carbon work in random.  Wanna see how you finished it.

UK, that's the thing, I could whittle it, but I don't want to have to whittle it 2 or 3 times as it's my first time. This will be a good place to start and then I can get busy.

I'm really interested in the molding technique. You have to document that. Will it be hollow like a car part or will you fill it? Also, do the 2 parts get glassed together? So many questions, can't wait to see it.

two options here the first is like you aquarium pump it only pulls 8" which is just OK for foam cores but you really want to have the option to pull higher especially when moulding some were around 24"

You end up bagging a lot more thing when you have a good and reliable pump setup that you know is not going to burst in to flames if you leave it running and all the oil pisses out and the motor seizes up ! plus with the vac switches ect it only comes on for a few sec every hour or so therefore save a bunch of energy.



http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=4839


http://www.veneersupplies.com/categories/Vacuum__Press__Items/Vacuum__Press__Kits/
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 10:38:25 PM by supuk »

PonoBill

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #19 on: March 07, 2017, 11:11:04 PM »
I have a nice Gast setup for my main pump, but I bought a oil pump first, and I hate wasting stuff, so I fixed the oil spewer.  It actually works pretty well now.

Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supuk

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2017, 01:30:06 AM »
I'm sure I have warned people before but If you do use a oil pump its best to do it in a separate room to were you do any laminating as any oil vapour that gets in the air will ruin any glass or  carbon cloth you have around not to mention contaminate everything else and give one more sure fire way to have fish eye headaches next time you do a hot coat.

surfcowboy

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2017, 01:33:44 AM »
Could you guys post a couple of examples? I've tried looking at eBay and there's always a thousand options. In fact, I'll start a beginner bagging thread to link to some starter stuff.

supuk

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2017, 03:48:33 AM »
Could you guys post a couple of examples? I've tried looking at eBay and there's always a thousand options. In fact, I'll start a beginner bagging thread to link to some starter stuff.

tbh the price on here for the new one is pretty dam good!

http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Excel-1-Continuous-Run-Vacuum-Press-System.html

I just had to take a stab in the dark when I got mine I'm not one to really fully understand all the numbers just went for the bigger is better approach.

 if not take the details of there and look for a similar one on ebay and cross reference on the gast website to get the full specs. I would tell you what mine were but they are a bit fare away at the moment! I have one of the square diaphragm ones which is a double piston one and then one of the round rotary vane type too which I have set up with a reservoir and all the bits and bobs.

there is a good gallery here  of all the different builds.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/pages/Vacuum__Press__Gallery.html

my build is bellow you can get away with just the pump and bleed valve but in time you will appreciate the full setup.

surfcowboy

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #23 on: March 08, 2017, 07:30:41 PM »
Thx man. What about the medical units? There are tons on eBay and I'm thinking that I'd crush less stuff with one of those LOL.

I'll start a thread so people can post up some links.

supuk

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #24 on: March 08, 2017, 07:49:30 PM »
Thx man. What about the medical units? There are tons on eBay and I'm thinking that I'd crush less stuff with one of those LOL.

I'll start a thread so people can post up some links.

possibly I have heard of them being used you would need to see what volume they pump and to what pressure, I have never played with one to test it.  With small things volume isn't such a issue if you don't have any leaks however if you are going to ever do even a small board you will want something with good capacity as even a small hole will have you panicking as the resin starts to kick and you can get the pressure down. I actually have my second pump always on stand by for these occasions and even a shop vac to get the large volume of air that can be in a bag when I'm doing a 14' or 16' board. As long as you have a vac gauge and bleeder valve and don't go over 12" on foam you wont crush anything unless you want to which can be fun. I often compact my waste foam from the cnc with my vac pump its amazing to see it turn a huge sack into a pancake :)

you could always use a venturi vac generator but they are not great on power and use a lot of air so means having a noisy air compressor going alot
« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 07:52:02 PM by supuk »

surfcowboy

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2017, 09:01:23 AM »
Thx man, that's a great point. And yeah maybe the Venturi will be my backup in case of pump issues.

Also hitting my local surplus places this weekend. Ah, it's good to live in the land of aerospace surplus. Pono, when you're in LA sometime let me take you on a tour of the guys who sell off 50 years of Lockheed and Northrop history here in Burbank. Mind blowing.

PonoBill

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2017, 10:00:54 AM »
I love surplus places. Used to be able to go to Boeing's surplus yard in Seattle to get all kinds of stuff, including sheets of aluminum and honeycomb deck plate. I was going to do the floor of my trailer in the stuff, but they closed the yard.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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