Author Topic: Clearwater foil kit  (Read 1269 times)

surfcowboy

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Clearwater foil kit
« on: March 06, 2017, 07:40:35 AM »
Here's one of the ideas we've been tossing around. This guy made a kit. $125 with all the wood cut and foiled.

I'm going to hit him up and see if he'll cut one for lower speeds.

http://www.clearwaterfoils.com

PonoBill

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2017, 08:55:00 AM »
The site says he's working on a SUP version. Where did you find the price? I'll order a couple.

Nevermind, found it. Damn those big "single page" sites (which never really are single page). Oh, wait, I built a few of those. Never mind again.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 09:14:56 AM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supuk

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2017, 02:05:05 PM »
Here's one of the ideas we've been tossing around. This guy made a kit. $125 with all the wood cut and foiled.

I'm going to hit him up and see if he'll cut one for lower speeds.

http://www.clearwaterfoils.com

looks interesting worth a play although I don't think there is anything there you couldn't whittle in a few hours and use a wood that has a good amount of natural oil and you wont have to worry to much about dings, just hope it is stiff. The birch plywood one I made was fairly good but does take a bit of time doing all the glassing and sanding which is why I'm going the moulded route.

PonoBill

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2017, 09:16:43 PM »
I plan on wrapping it with carbon, and probably extending the trailing edge to gain some square inches. I've got a bunch of 10 oz 3k that I don't have another use for--bought ten yards for a project that didn't work out. I made some carbon kick plates for the doors of my truck today. Tasty.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 09:18:17 PM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

surfcowboy

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2017, 01:32:26 AM »
Pono, post up that carbon work in random.  Wanna see how you finished it.

UK, that's the thing, I could whittle it, but I don't want to have to whittle it 2 or 3 times as it's my first time. This will be a good place to start and then I can get busy.

I'm really interested in the molding technique. You have to document that. Will it be hollow like a car part or will you fill it? Also, do the 2 parts get glassed together? So many questions, can't wait to see it.

dns

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2017, 09:06:28 AM »
That's sweet. For $125 it's not worth my time to to whittle it out myself and try to optimize the foils. I'd bet that if a few of us got together for, like, 5 of them he'd do a run in paulownia (if that's not already what they're made of) that we could carbon wrap. I'd definitely be in for 2-3 just myself.

ETA: Just sent him an email to see about tuttle boxed, SUP sized foils, in paulownia. 5-10 kits.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 09:14:44 AM by dns »

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2017, 11:04:24 AM »
come on boys just get the grinder out its not that hard!

supuk

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2017, 11:38:09 AM »
That's sweet. For $125 it's not worth my time to to whittle it out myself and try to optimize the foils. I'd bet that if a few of us got together for, like, 5 of them he'd do a run in paulownia (if that's not already what they're made of) that we could carbon wrap. I'd definitely be in for 2-3 just myself.

ETA: Just sent him an email to see about tuttle boxed, SUP sized foils, in paulownia. 5-10 kits.

As mentioned in his website he is using the wood for the main strength in his build which looks to just be pine or something, this makes the build a little simpler and need a lot less glass or carbon. If you switch to a lighter wood you are back to relying on the composites to do the work which is fine but makes it all a little more complex.

dns

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2017, 01:10:40 PM »
^^Not too. I'll gladly trade half the weight in wood for putting on a second layer of carbon. Putting on 2 is just as easy as putting on 1 and the extra cost on such a small part is negligible. Especially since I plan on bagging it anyway, light core always wins.

supuk

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2017, 01:28:05 PM »
You will need way more than two plus to make something like paulownia. You will need more  like 6-8 plys minimum of uni per side running length ways then 3-4 running at 45 to get the torsional stiffness you will also need to do the same on the fus to stop that bending as well as twisting. The last fus I built in high grade birch ply and even that with two plys was not enough to be fully rigid and any twisting you get when on the foil leads to a huge loss in control. You could do a very simple test with a plank of balsa from the hardware store but from experience personally your better of ether going low tech like the guy is suggesting or going high tech and making moulds which after about 5 prototypes in various constructions including light weight cores is the way I'm going.

dns

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2017, 02:20:14 PM »
Hmmm, good info, thanks. The standard for paipos here is a 1/2" pauwlonia core with 2 layers of 6oz glass on the base and 1 on top so I thought 2 layers of carbon would have been plenty.

PonoBill

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2017, 03:12:46 PM »
If you're looking for torsional stiffness I wouldn't use Uni unless it was one layer lengthwise, one 90 degrees to that, lather, rinse repeat. I used three layers of 10OZ 3K straight weave for the first geezer foil and the support arms. Torsional stiffness is good, and longitudinal flex is pretty good, but the joints and the mounting plate not so much.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

dns

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2017, 04:41:39 PM »
Definitely not uni, I'm thinking (now) 2 @ 45* and 1 intermediate @ 90*. Although 1 layer of uni spanwise would really help keep the flex down.

surfcowboy

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2017, 06:42:37 PM »
Ah, UK saving us from broken parts.

There are crazy forces on that joint between the mast and fuselage if you think about it.

I'll take the pine for my first one since I'm going to crash the hell out of it and I'm ok with the 4 point mount as I'll probably just screw it to a Pono skin (trademark that man) and duct tape it to the bottom of my board for the first tests.

Looks like I'll be building an aquarium pump vac bag rig soon. Get ready for some crazy shop pics.

PonoBill

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Re: Clearwater foil kit
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2017, 07:57:10 PM »
Your life will suck with an aquarium pump, or rather it won't suck enough. I figured out a way to use the cheap oil-spewing pumps and keep them from blowing oil everywhere, a swirl pot on the vent (made from a Fosters big-ass beer can) that drains back to the fill cap. I don't know why they wouldn't just come this way. You can get the oil bath rotary pumps for 65 bucks at Walmart or about $80 from Jet or Harbor Freight. 3 cfm or thereabouts.

Uni is always a little tricky. the biggest advantage besides being a bit cheaper is that the fiber isn't kinked by weaving. Even in a resin matrix the wiggle of passing over and under crossing fibers gets taken up a bit as load is applied, so woven carbon cloth has a little more initial give. But uni provides almost no rigidity perpendicular to the fibers, and if something pulls up on a fiber it can cut itself right out of the matrix. If you get a fray on a Ke Nalu xTuf shaft, don't pull up on it. Sand it off. You can strip it full length, right out of the shaft. There's nothing but a thin layer of epoxy to stop it.  And the fiberglass underneath the Uni carbon on xTuf shafts is there to keep the shaft from buckling against your hand and to resist twisting. The uni doesn't help resist twisting much. If you wanted a nearly pure Uni shaft (which would feel terrible, btw) you'd need to wind one layer at an angle (maybe 70 degrees) and the second at 110 degrees (70 reversed). Uni is super strong when you use it right, and a fantastic material, but you have to watch the lateral load and figure out how to resist it. Carbon fiber is ONLY strong in tension.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

 


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