Author Topic: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design  (Read 3836 times)

Beasho

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SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« on: March 05, 2017, 05:26:51 PM »
An alternative approach to Surfing foils

Originally BY SURFFOILS.

I mentioned to Jeff Clark yesterday that someone had come up with an alternative design to the traditional wing and stabilizer that Kiteboards (F One), Kai, (Alex Aguera GoFoil) and Laird have been testing that relies on a single foil, or disc, that doesn't readily stall because some part is always submerged.  Add to this the ability to engage the rail with a shorter mast design.  All 4 years before KAI!!!! He raised his eyebrow with delight!

This as Jeff was about to embark on a maiden foil voyage to our local spot. 

Rather than burying SURFFOILS design on page 17 of another thread lets get the dialogue going.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 06:00:48 PM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2017, 05:34:31 PM »
I don't know why it won't embed here, there's no privacy regulation I've done.

The prone foiling gave me the chance to work out how to ride them and what changes to the design made to the riding. I rode thousands of waves on the prone foils since seeing Laird in 06. When you're prone there's no fear of losing balance so I learnt that you can bunny hop on foils, do high speed surface slides by intentionally ventilating the foil.     That the foil design for normal surfing waves has to adjust for the angle down the face towards the beach, the angle down towards the nose and the curve of the wave itself with bigger waves needing a wider, longer foil for stability at high speed.
 I started with the Twin lateral foils like Laird did and tried so many arrangements with NACA profiles and all the carbon, Aluminium ,glass layups, grinding, sanding. Trying to get the right angles front and back,  the distance between, trying An and Di tips becuase it was bogging in the turns and after about 2 years I gave up.
Screw it !
And then I thought surfings a left and right engagement, especially due to the water flow on a wave and  not directly from the front. So I turned the foils to go front to back and it's like night and day.
 Here's a pic of one of the 2009 foils in the Vimeo videos.
 It's very basic from what my foils are now but it shows that you can use a single foil in the surf and have complete control.

3 ply with 1x6 and 1x carbon. Flat plate, no foil, 5 mm thick, so no form drag and it's very light.














« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 05:40:01 PM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2017, 05:40:35 PM »
What makes SURFFOILS design appealing is that it sounds like a hybrid between Kitefoiling and Surfing.

The Monocoque (Airplane like) design of traditional foils may be more efficient when under constant power: Behind a boat, kite or with a sail.  SURFFOILS design could be better when consistently transitioning from Displacement mode to Hydrodynamic lift mode.  It appears to act like a fin with enough lift to buoy the entire craft. 

Here was Jeff Clark Fired Up for his Surf Foil (F-One Brand).

« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 05:50:18 PM by Beasho »

Beasho

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2017, 05:50:45 PM »
Swaylocks link:

http://www.swaylocks.com/forums/hydrofoil-surfboard-shortboard-ready-to-ride

Videos on Vimeo: (You need some updated Marketing Materials)

https://vimeo.com/search?q=surffoils

And a quick clip.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 06:02:27 PM by Beasho »

SURFFOILS

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2017, 05:56:52 PM »
@ Beansho, thanks for the new thread. This should be for everyone to add to so can you take my name from the title please ? I'm not going to hog the thread, I want to listen as much as talk.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 06:02:02 PM by SURFFOILS »

Beasho

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2017, 06:06:29 PM »
I'm not going to hog the thread, I want to listen as much as talk.

Oh They'll Talk.  Don't worry.  Your name is generic, and with only 18 posts no one realizes it's your handle.  It's catchy, its correct and it attributes credit for the novel approach.  Fortunately there are a bunch of talented people on this forum, some with plenty of time to invest so hopefully they can help catalyze a solution. 

Alternately this takes a turn and becomes the next limerick about an aluminum SUP. 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 06:54:42 PM by Beasho »

SURFFOILS

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2017, 06:09:10 PM »
Thanks for that Beansho.
Let's see what happens.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 06:27:28 PM by SURFFOILS »

surfcowboy

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2017, 06:46:13 PM »
Thx man. I'm actually interested in the paipo/bodyboard stuff as much.

Yeah, seńor Foils, leave the name, none of us put in the time but I'm sure you've inspired a few here to start down the road. Take the bow.

Now, where can I go salvage some aluminum stock? ;)

SURFFOILS

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2017, 07:27:19 PM »
[quote author=surfcowboy

Man , I'm really a fan of the longer foils myself, but I need to build a bodyboard and get to work.

I think the current foils show about 2 to 2.5 feet, 24 to 30 inches (oh man, are we gonna have to standardize on the metric system here? ;) but Pono and a few of us discussed the geezer foil idea of splitting out the foils over a long down wind board just to make things super easy but obviously that won't work on a wave.

But I do think people are over compensating with the front/rear axis. If you actually look at surfboards on a wave there's not really that much in the water. Skimboard guys have even less so I can see how maybe 18" could work if you were a good rider. If you check the current GoFoil systems on really long boards, you gain some stability just from the pressure of the water moving over the foil. I assume this is the same effect as a low volume Sup with rails under water gaining side to side stability. Add the movement and I'm betting the lift stabilizes the fore/aft even more allowing even less length.

Time to hack up a foamie and start cutting plywood shorter and shorter. ;)
[/quote]

Surfcowboy, There's a lot in that post...
 Splitting the foils works but it's the type of foil you use. A breaking wave is a 3-D shape to fit into and onto.
 Even at 24" long my foils take some experience to ride but they are adjustable and cheap to replace.

 Here's some pics of the smartest guy I know who built his own boards and foils for many decades. The late Terry Hendricks.
we never had enough time to do as much with design as we could have.

Take a look at the progression of the design, want do you see ?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 07:34:09 PM by SURFFOILS »

LaPerouseBay

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2017, 08:50:03 PM »
This thread has legs.

Thanks for the contributions surffoils, fascinating work, looks very original.

Support your local shaper

SURFFOILS

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2017, 01:43:17 AM »
LaPerouseBay, it will be good to talk with people interested in foils.
Here's a few pics of various foils, mine and not,  and a link to an App that's a bit of fun.



« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 02:09:36 AM by SURFFOILS »

Admin

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2017, 03:57:04 AM »
Hi Surffoils,

This stuff is really cool.  The thread on 2ndlight really peaked my interest in single foils with lots of guys contributing really interesting designs (as pasted above). 

That trails off around 2013 and it looks like all of the images above were in that older thread. http://2ndlight.com/fusetalk/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=3&threadid=146169&STARTPAGE=7&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

I am very interested in hearing (and seeing) what has advanced since then kind of like Terry Hendicks did on his old site from 2003 http://mypaipoboards.org/hydrofoil/paipo_hydrofoil.shtml.









« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 04:17:28 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2017, 07:27:33 AM »
This is so inspirational, and it comes at a great time. I'm back in Hood River. My shop looks like someone ransacked it, and I can't find the parts for several of the projects I left underway. Where the hell did I put the special screws for the clutch on my Vincent?!? What did I do with the left side overrider bracket for my electric TR3?!? There's a 20' length of 3/4" stainless tubing that I can't find. How do you lose a 20' tube!!

It's driving me insane. I'm going to start a foil project just to calm down and have something to do that doesn't make me nuts.
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

supuk

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2017, 02:13:04 PM »
This windsurf foil has a lot going on and to think about so will through it in this mixing pot.

 http://www.ifoil.co.uk/

blueplanetsurf

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Re: SURFFOILS Hydrofoil Design
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2017, 03:10:35 PM »
Great thread, nice to see the innovation and progression.  The current SUP foils available and all very similar to the original Air Chair foil design, good to see some different concepts shown here.


Robert Stehlik
Blue Planet Surf Shop, Honolulu
Hawaii's SUP HQ
http://www.blueplanetsurf.com

 


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