Author Topic: Going Thin....the board not me  (Read 1552 times)

Paddle On

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Going Thin....the board not me
« on: March 04, 2017, 12:31:53 AM »
i have been surfing a jimmy lewis stun 9'7" 31" wide 137 liters (215lbs), been talking with a few friends who have been encouraging me to go to 29" wide.

seems to be some discussion that a narrower board will go rail to rail much better and that 29" or lower is the way to go. i am considering the starboard 9" x 29" wide 139 liters.

any thoughts on going narrow, as opposed to going shorter or down in volume?
chwingman Jimmy Lewis 9'7" Stun Gun, Starboard 9.0 Hero, Starboard 12' Big Easy

surfshaver

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2017, 09:25:55 PM »
29 definitely is the way to go for your next board.

My experience may be useful for you.  I'm about 190 (200 in a wet wetsuit) and I have been riding a 9'2" Stun Gun for the last few years.  The board is very stable, smooth, predictable, and turns well.  However, I dont find it very fast down the line, especially below head high.

I wanted a board that would be faster and better for waist high up to a few feet overhead.

I got a 7'10"x29 L41 Popdart.

This design was a pretty big leap for me.  I'm starting to enjoy it.  It is like a bar of soap, planes so fast on the first turn you can't have your weight too far back or you'll fall.

The shorter length is really the main challenge more than the width.  It's that tomo/planing hull design.

You could probably get an L41 Bruce Wayne, similar "shortboard" shape to the JL, 8'6'x29, but with the step rail he puts in the boards it might be something like 125 liters.  That will be a step down for you but not too much.

The problem I think with wider sups is that they have too much planshape curve so they will be turn-y, and this football shape makes them slower. 




Badger

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2017, 03:31:26 AM »
I rode the 9'2 Stun Gun for about a year.

The Stun Gun is made for waves with a lot of power. Give it a steep enough wave and it will fly. Anything less and it will be very slow due in part to its narrow tail. I ended up selling it because we rarely get conditions suitable for that type of board.
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surfcowboy

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2017, 08:17:51 AM »
If you are near SoCal, or travel, try to get on something even narrower if you can. Lower volume seems to be letting people go even narrower than they thought. But yes, easing down is better than having a board you don't like. If you can, go slowly, inch by inch as you get below 29"

anonsurfer

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2017, 09:25:38 AM »
seems to be some discussion that a narrower board will go rail to rail much better and that 29" or lower is the way to go. i am considering the starboard 9" x 29" wide 139 liters.

any thoughts on going narrow, as opposed to going shorter or down in volume?
29" vs 31" will be a big improvement in maneuverability.  The shorter length will also help. 

At 215lbs on a 139L board you have a guild factor of 1.43L/kg.  You will see a big increase in surfing performance once you get below 1.3 L/kg (127L). 
Home Break: Doheny

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supthecreek

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2017, 12:23:31 PM »
Paddle On, there is no magic answer to that question IMO.
Overall shape has more to do with performance, than width, length or volume alone.

Since you are comfortable on your JL, I am guessing that you are ready for the drop in size & width, to the new Starboard

I looked up that Starboard, and it looks like a very good board.
At lot of design features have been learned in the last few years, that have improved stability and overall performance.

My only caution is you should be ready for a period of adjustment, as you learn to paddle the smaller board.

It sounds like your friends have smaller boards... have you tried theirs?
I think I have tried almost every board out there.... because I will paddle up to total strangers and ask to try their board.... they are usually stoked to show off their board!



SUP & primal.... a good beginning
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SlatchJim

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2017, 01:10:19 PM »
Go as small, high performance, and light as possible without sacrificing usable stability and durability.  Simple as that.  What that looks like is the real conundrum.

NorthJerzSurfer

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2017, 04:22:16 PM »
seems to be some discussion that a narrower board will go rail to rail much better and that 29" or lower is the way to go. i am considering the starboard 9" x 29" wide 139 liters.

any thoughts on going narrow, as opposed to going shorter or down in volume?
29" vs 31" will be a big improvement in maneuverability.  The shorter length will also help. 

At 215lbs on a 139L board you have a guild factor of 1.43L/kg.  You will see a big increase in surfing performance once you get below 1.3 L/kg (127L).
I agree with this 100 percent. My board performance significantly changed right at this mark. I just didn't know it to I read this!

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8'8 Infinity RNB 135l
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exiled

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2017, 06:21:12 PM »
seems to be some discussion that a narrower board will go rail to rail much better and that 29" or lower is the way to go. i am considering the starboard 9" x 29" wide 139 liters.

any thoughts on going narrow, as opposed to going shorter or down in volume?
29" vs 31" will be a big improvement in maneuverability.  The shorter length will also help. 

At 215lbs on a 139L board you have a guild factor of 1.43L/kg.  You will see a big increase in surfing performance once you get below 1.3 L/kg (127L).

Agreed. 1.3 is right around the place that most people find a uptick in performance. The 128 L version of the 9-0 pro might be the better board for you, especially if you are going to keep your stungun around.

surfshaver

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2017, 07:25:59 PM »
When you guys calculate the V/W ratio, do you include the weight of the board and/or add the wetsuit? 

I'm about 1.3 if I add the board.

anonsurfer

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2017, 05:52:43 AM »
When you guys calculate the V/W ratio, do you include the weight of the board and/or add the wetsuit? 

I'm about 1.3 if I add the board.

Don't include the board weight.  Guild factor (GF) measures the ratio between the surfer’s body weight and the volume (in cubic liters) of a surfboard.    GF is just a reference point.  You can include wetsuit weight, just be consistent in how you calculate it.   

Home Break: Doheny

Anon Hypto Krypto, 6'3"x27.5"x80L
Anon Lazy Boy, 6'6"x26.75"x80L (Incoming)
Kaysen Buzz, 6'10"x27"x84L

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Werner Nitro S (+0" OH)

surfshaver

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2017, 09:03:04 AM »
Thanks!  Either way, I'm close to that number now.

Slightly off topic, but not totally in regard to the OP, I saw a very interesting video with Bert Burger where he said that surface area was just as important in understanding board performance relative to rider weight as is volume.

His point was that a greater surface area relative to volume in a board would improve planing and real-world performance on the waves most of us surf most of the time.  Along with aspect ratio, this would explain the benefits of MPH/tomo designs like Simsup/Minion, etc.

To the OP, when going down in width and volume, I'd ask yourself what kind of waves do you surf most of the time?

If you surf punchy beachbreak, then the "shortboard" shape like SB Pro models or JP Surf, etc would be good.

For pointbreaks and more slopey waves, the tomo or semi-tomo shapes would be good.

surfafrica

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2017, 10:43:19 AM »
Slightly off topic, but not totally in regard to the OP, I saw a very interesting video with Bert Burger where he said that surface area was just as important in understanding board performance relative to rider weight as is volume. His point was that a greater surface area relative to volume in a board would improve planing and real-world performance on the waves most of us surf most of the time.  Along with aspect ratio, this would explain the benefits of MPH/tomo designs like Simsup/Minion, etc.

Absolutely.  ...and a similar concept as to what Creek was saying when he said "shape has more to do with performance, than width, length or volume alone."

My 8'10 x 26.5, 84 L longboard style SUP is quite a bit more stable and planes much better than my 7'5 x 26, 87 L Cornice shape--the longboard has a lot more surface area. 

With my 7'5, I have a lot of width in the tail (like a SIMS/Tomo) and I think having the width there adds proportionally more stability than if that width was just in the middle (as advertised). 

I've also tried two 8'6 x 31, 140 L boards: one was a SIMS and one was a traditional shape.  The SIMS was more stable and felt a lot different on the wave than the traditional shape. On a super steep wave (which I rarely find myself in), I'd take the traditional shape.  On a point break or anything with slope, the SIMS was awesome.

Here are some nerdy images comparing the shapes:




« Last Edit: March 08, 2017, 10:52:48 AM by surfafrica »
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Infinity RNB: 7'6 x 28, 95 L https://goo.gl/SqlWR4
Kronos NB: 7'5 x 26, 87 L https://goo.gl/VRVNac
Kronos LB: 8'10 x 26.5, 84 L https://goo.gl/psDuJU

Paddle On

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2017, 11:09:59 PM »
i have never heard of the glide factor. to be honest 215lb is naked in the morn after a leak, ha! i would guess after i water up, add wetsuit and paddle more like 223 or a glide of 1.38. i have been on the pro XL, 139 for 2 sessions and it is def a step down , but i am getting the hang of the stability and position to catch waves. once on the wave it feels amazing!

my buddy was also recommending the regular SB 9' (128L) saying that having more board under the water is actually more stable. it seems to me that a jump of s6" shorter and 2 inches narrower AND 10L less would be too much?

the pivot turns throw me off a bit and having to lean super far forward to catch the smaller waves is tough, but carving is so much better.

PO
chwingman Jimmy Lewis 9'7" Stun Gun, Starboard 9.0 Hero, Starboard 12' Big Easy

supthecreek

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Re: Going Thin....the board not me
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2017, 04:56:46 AM »
When you guys calculate the V/W ratio, do you include the weight of the board and/or add the wetsuit? 

I'm about 1.3 if I add the board.

I have always included total weight of all gear.
I weigh a LOT more while surfing wet in full winter gear, so I add 10 lbs for that
Plus board and paddle weight.

I have you at 1.26 when calculating total weight
The 128 L will have you at 1.16
That shouldn't be a problem

Starting at 105 kg, that puts my total at around 119 kg right now.
at 1.3 that = 155 L 
155 is super easy , even for an old fart like me.

Since I have a van full of demo boards at my disposal, I have 14 boards to chose from every session

On clean days I ride 131 L = 1.1
Most days because we have lots of wind, I ride 148 L = 1.24
Challenging days I ride 160 L = 1.34

To put "surface area" into perspective
I have an 8'3 x 32 board at 126 L
Because it is a wide nose, wide tail "square board" with a ton of surface area.... it is easy for me at 1.05

At the same time, I cant ride my 130 L board in winter because it is only 29" wide
Also.... the pointier the nose and tail.... the more difficult it becomes


As far as speed, it comes in different forms IMO
My parallel rail boards have a natural speed, but don't "pump" as easy
My curvey boards are easy to pump down the line, so I can create the speed I need.

Most of my boards are performance shapes with rocker.

I believe that the absolute fastest board I have is a low rocker intermediate "all-arounder" that is 9'5 x 32 at 160 L
Full nose and tail, curvy outline,  but has an amazing natural speed because of the low rocker and fairly flat tail.
I am always stunned by how fast it is....It is a freeking rocket.
I have 29" wide boards that can't touch it

Another board that has impressive "natural" speed has the most outline curve of all my boards... plus it has performance rocker.
I believe the speed comes from the fairly flat, wide area between the sidebites... If I weight over those fins, it has amazing release and just takes off.

My bottom line on speed:
Speed is more "rider" than "board"
The speed is there.... in the wave.....How to find it, and use it is the most crucial factor.

Like a skateboard on a flat parking lot.... create speed by pumping.... loading and unloading.
On a wave you have the added bonus of wave features to use, use it correctly and the speed is there.
A steep drop, white water to bank off of, a long wall to climb and drop.........
SUP & primal.... a good beginning
Sunova Acid 9'4, SPEEED 8'10, 10'6 Surf (ECO)
http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,27344.0.html

Sunova Carbon, Ke Nalu Wiki

My Youtube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHRI23a8H21jASPdVCQUpog

 


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