Author Topic: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards  (Read 44296 times)

warmuth

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #165 on: March 21, 2017, 11:55:26 AM »
"Strength has to be developed in conjunction with the needs of the sport."


But really my fundamental goal every time on the water is to have fun and relax.  My speed is really a non-issue.  I go plenty fast enough and have no pressing desire to go any faster really.  It is what it is.  I just take it and go.  SUP for me has always been about improving my balance in middle age.  Off water -> about fitness and strength etc.  :)

  Although I enjoy training and competition now I do look forward to the day when the desire to race is gone and I can own one touring sup and one surfing sup and only paddle for pure fun.

Luc Benac

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #166 on: March 21, 2017, 12:11:10 PM »
  Although I enjoy training and competition now I do look forward to the day when the desire to race is gone and I can own one touring sup and one surfing sup and only paddle for pure fun.

You will still be missing a downwind board - it is fun :-)
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Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #167 on: March 21, 2017, 12:31:26 PM »
Haha!  Generally if someone challenges me on the water.  Still game on!  Luc knows.  Applies to sailing and SUP equally.  Basically retired from sailboat racing 5 yrs ago.  But was challenged to give it a go again.  Won the race -> and was super fun and very exciting.

For SUP was asked to team up and do a 20 mi relay.  Just depends if my partner feels comfortable to do it on her new board 24.5AS.  For me am ready to race tomorrow on that board.  It feels very efficient and slippery.  But much more stable than my 23.  Paddle 5-10 miles all the time on my 23 now.  So should be fun if we can make that race happen.

But Luc is right -> you need to DW.  That is way more fun than bs flat water torture racing.  ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Area 10

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #168 on: March 21, 2017, 01:34:45 PM »
Downwinding really is what SUP is for, I think. SUPs are laughably slow in flat water. And they are slow and ponderous in surf compared to prone surfing. But when downwinding, the characteristics of SUP become advantages - such as standing up providing a sail area, and being able to move around the board in a way that you cannot in eg. surfski or OC. Downwinding is physically demanding, logistically demanding, can be dangerous, and requires a lot of ancillary skills and experience (swimming, surfing etc). But for me, it is the most fun and thrills you can have on a SUP, short perhaps of big wave riding. In big downwind conditions there is just so much happening, and so much raw energy around you. You don't need to be competing against anyone else to get an adrenaline rush.

yugi

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #169 on: March 21, 2017, 01:45:06 PM »
word

warmuth

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #170 on: March 22, 2017, 03:19:52 AM »
  Touring board was the wrong term. M14, 28" Maliko, 29" Sidewinder, Bullet V1, a board like those as a single all purpose board. Surfing, around here I'll take a sup every time. I'm past the point of radical shortboarding. I've had a lot of fun even surfing raceboards.

yugi

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #171 on: March 22, 2017, 03:36:02 AM »
^ they make great touring boards.

But wouldn't an Allstar also?

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #172 on: March 22, 2017, 07:47:22 PM »
Agree with Eagle here. Strength/weight ratio is very important. Squat 315 and deadlift 400 and you will paddle faster. Want to train endurance- lift weights in 20+ plus rep range and develop your slow twitch muscles. Running or whatever else 99% of folks are doing to improve their endurance will mostly lead to muscle loss/skinny fat look. It is a proven fact. Funny that people buy into the idea of cardio training - where as heart is the most trained muscle in our bodies and it does not need more training. Work on building more metachondria ;)

Def 100% with you on this.  ;)
This approach to strength training exercise comes from David a top surfski endurance athlete -

"For endurance athletes, such as kayak/surfski paddlers, strength training provides an important physical counterbalance to the repetitious movements associated with the boat and paddle. While nothing can replace sport specific training for increased performance (you have to go paddling to become a faster paddler), supplementing with some weight training will make you a stronger, more complete athlete. This will ensure that you correct imbalances in muscle groups and strengthen the areas around your joints, which is vital for injury prevention.

And of course, working out with weights helps develop raw power and explosive strength, which is hard to get in the boat alone. For kayak athletes this translates into faster accelerations and higher output during hard interval efforts – a welcome advantage when looking for a fast start, breaking away from a pack of racers, or sprinting to catch a wave."

"For paddlers, I believe body weight training is very effective – i.e. pull-ups, push-ups, sit-ups and core exercises."

http://www.atlanticpaddler.com/kayak-training/kayak-strength-training-with-dawid-mocke/
Fast is FUN!   8)
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Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #173 on: March 22, 2017, 08:50:23 PM »
Touring board was the wrong term. M14, 28" Maliko, 29" Sidewinder, Bullet V1, a board like those as a single all purpose board. Surfing, around here I'll take a sup every time. I'm past the point of radical shortboarding. I've had a lot of fun even surfing raceboards.
Hi warmuth - those boards you list are really good boards for DW.  You should really like them.  They also can be used for AW touring -> but my personal pref would be the Bullet 14V2.  Not on your list - but a board that is stable and DW versatile.

Allows AW and DW use and is ok in more docile conditions.  Was out this past weekend and 2 of my DW buddies were using 14V2s while I was on my Dom.  Upwind they kept up fine -> but DW they took off in just 3kts of breeze!  Now I had paddled about 4 miles extra already in 12 kts - but still.  I could see them slip ahead on every micro bump without paddling hard.  Was very frustrating and I told them after during beers.  But it is what it was.  That 14V2 is a really nice board and a ton of peeps have them now.  Personally know like 6 guys that have the 14 and 3 the 12'6.  But really any of your choices you list should be fine for what you want.

It is a joy just paddling around for pure fun at this point.  That really is what makes SUP so appealing for us.  :)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

ukgm

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #174 on: March 23, 2017, 01:51:05 AM »

"For endurance athletes, such as kayak/surfski paddlers, strength training provides an important physical counterbalance to the repetitious movements associated with the boat and paddle.While nothing can replace sport specific training for increased performance (you have to go paddling to become a faster paddler), supplementing with some weight training will make you a stronger, more complete athlete. This will ensure that you correct imbalances in muscle groups and strengthen the areas around your joints, which is vital for injury prevention."


This is key for me. If health issues aren't an issue, I wouldn't even start to think about strength work to improve SUP racing unless you're doing at least 6-7 hours training a week (and even that is low in endurance athlete terms).

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #175 on: March 23, 2017, 05:00:21 AM »
Yep no doubt Mocke says -
(you have to go paddling to become a faster paddler)

But he continues on with this tidbit which is vitally important for the crap slug average joe like me -> "supplementing with some weight training will make you a stronger, more complete athlete. This will ensure that you correct imbalances in muscle groups and strengthen the areas around your joints, which is vital for injury prevention."  This is actually 100% true in my experience.

It is clear Boothy has plenty of muscle mass -> but even then he still works hard to keep it and build on it.  That is very smart.  He also has good endurance and he needs not to lose much fat mass.  That simple combination in part allowed him a very quick and easy transition to SUP success at the top level.  He has plenty of muscle mass - has good endurance - and has low fat mass.  Plus his technique and balance learning curve really was amazingly short for a SUP noob.  Basically SB plopped him on an AS and just gave him a paddle -> and said do your thing mate.  And he has.

But def one has to actually paddle to be a faster paddler.  That is always a given.  Boothy and Mocke are at or near the top because they incorporate strength training.  If they did not -> they would not be where they are.  ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

ukgm

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #176 on: March 23, 2017, 05:12:22 AM »

Boothy and Mocke are at or near the top because they incorporate strength training.  If they did not -> they would not be where they are.  ;)

We don't know that. You can't isolate the effect of one facet of training from another. I'm not saying that's the case here but sometimes training trends can be 'in spite of' not 'because of'. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the garage to, er, lift some steel...........

warmuth

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #177 on: March 23, 2017, 09:43:40 AM »
Touring board was the wrong term. M14, 28" Maliko, 29" Sidewinder, Bullet V1, a board like those as a single all purpose board. Surfing, around here I'll take a sup every time. I'm past the point of radical shortboarding. I've had a lot of fun even surfing raceboards.
Hi warmuth - those boards you list are really good boards for DW.  You should really like them.  They also can be used for AW touring -> but my personal pref would be the Bullet 14V2.  Not on your list - but a board that is stable and DW versatile.

Allows AW and DW use and is ok in more docile conditions.  Was out this past weekend and 2 of my DW buddies were using 14V2s while I was on my Dom.  Upwind they kept up fine -> but DW they took off in just 3kts of breeze!  Now I had paddled about 4 miles extra already in 12 kts - but still.  I could see them slip ahead on every micro bump without paddling hard.  Was very frustrating and I told them after during beers.  But it is what it was.  That 14V2 is a really nice board and a ton of peeps have them now.  Personally know like 6 guys that have the 14 and 3 the 12'6.  But really any of your choices you list should be fine for what you want.

It is a joy just paddling around for pure fun at this point.  That really is what makes SUP so appealing for us.  :)

  I should probably buy a nice wide downwind board "for my wife".  She is starting to feel a bit left out these days....The one big drawback of owning only raceboards is they're useless for everybody else.

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #178 on: March 23, 2017, 10:28:02 AM »
Yep.  But you may be surprised pretty quick.  My wife can ride the Dom AW and AS23 on flat pretty easy now.  Whereas when she first started she could not stand on the Dom for more than 5 minutes at a time.  Just get your wife something a bit more stable like one of those boards -> and she should be good.  Plus you can use that yourself for DW.  I see...  Perfect.  ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #179 on: April 02, 2017, 05:56:54 PM »
Just paddled the 2017 AS24.5 for a few hours doing a few up down speed sprints at the harbor entrance.  Wind was about 25 kts but was ducking and hiding most of the way to open water.  Also swapped with the Bullet 14V2.

The 24.5 was faster on flat but much slower once you hit the full wind line.  This was due to the big extra volume windage up front.  The wind blasts blow the nose huge and you have to waste a lot of power correcting your line.  The much lower profile Bullet comparatively motored upwind and thru the swells quite easily.

DW the AS24.5 took off fast and was stable with a bit of roll from the chamfered edges.  The cutting boof prevents pearling but has a tendency to roll if too far forward.  The Bullet was fantastic and stayed in complete control - even way up front.  All in all the AS performed really well except in wind on the front quarter and on the side.  The stability is good.  The 24.5 def feels faster than the 2016 AS25.

Another friend has the 2017 AS23 and he says it is faster on plane than the 2016 -> but off plane is a touch slower.  He noted the 2017 has less glide for some reason.  Would have thought the 2016 slower from all the SB promotions.  ::)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

 


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