Author Topic: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards  (Read 9918 times)

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #90 on: March 06, 2017, 11:21:50 AM »
Hydrodynamically speaking, it's better to have a messier entry and clean release than the other way around. I believe this is why so many paddlers are getting on quite well with boof noses when they think the board shouldn't when they see loads of whisker spray up front.

This Touring carbon has a piercing entry and very clean pintail release.  All Bryan S needed to do was make it narrower -> but he moved to LK.  Would have been a flat water race weapon at 25 wide if not targeted as a SB touring board.  C'est la vie.  Many peeps complained at the time this 30 board was tippy because of the pintail.  But this was not really so.

The current Naish Jav nose kinda reminds me of the old Touring nose design.  Has the same "destroyer" flow Robby talks about.  With the pin plus a narrowed width -> that SB would have been fast.  On my 5 mile ocean loop it is the same as my Dom in about 10 kts of breeze.

Even at 30 though -> still is a super fun board in 15-25 kts DW.  Comparatively the boof spray is a turn-off but is fast if the board is narrow and efficient on flat.  Our AS23 cutting boof design succeeds at this.  Some peeps do also complain the 23 is tippy though.  So stability is really a personal matter and can vary wildly when boards narrow down.  That is quite evident.  The M24 looks to be stable and fast for DW though.  Looks like a real fun board.

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Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #91 on: March 06, 2017, 11:34:10 AM »
I had a chance to demo the 12'6x24.5 AllStar yesterday after a local race. It felt stable and efficient for a 12'6...

We talk about the SB AllStar noses being "boof" because they're voluminous above the waterline, but I think the part that actually contacts the water is closer to traditional cutting-bow displacement designs. Especially when compared to boards like the Fanatic Falcons that have more nose rocker and less vee at the entry, and have less waterline in flatwater.

Yeah - when you look at the underbody the AS has a rolled vee design at the bow.  It is quite deceptive at waterline like a few other boards.  But here is the perfect example of the rider variance in stability.  Both FWS and ukgm race fairly seriously.  FWS found the 12'6 stable.  ukgm found the 12'6 a bit tippy.  Granted they weigh different amounts.  ukgm is probs heavier.

Have not tried the Hovie.  Looks kinda interesting.
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ukgm

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #92 on: March 06, 2017, 12:25:25 PM »
I had a chance to demo the 12'6x24.5 AllStar yesterday after a local race. It felt stable and efficient for a 12'6...

We talk about the SB AllStar noses being "boof" because they're voluminous above the waterline, but I think the part that actually contacts the water is closer to traditional cutting-bow displacement designs. Especially when compared to boards like the Fanatic Falcons that have more nose rocker and less vee at the entry, and have less waterline in flatwater.

Yeah - when you look at the underbody the AS has a rolled vee design at the bow.  It is quite deceptive at waterline like a few other boards.  But here is the perfect example of the rider variance in stability.  Both FWS and ukgm race fairly seriously.  FWS found the 12'6 stable.  ukgm found the 12'6 a bit tippy.  Granted they weigh different amounts.  ukgm is probs heavier.

Have not tried the Hovie.  Looks kinda interesting.

94kg and 6ft 3 for me.
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supuk

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #93 on: March 06, 2017, 01:40:55 PM »
There is defiantly a few things I think that could be improved on fairly easily however it felt a lot better than some of the mega volumes boards I have paddled recently. Some one get me the cad files and let me have a tweak around.

most of the changes I would personally make are near or above the waterline so shouldn't effect flat water speed, just mainly improve handling and improve average speed as a result of that


What sort of things would you tweak near or above the waterline?  And have you ever paddled the Maliko 14x24?  Had the impression Casper and Kai did ok on the Maliko.

No not paddled the 24 wide. I would like to play with the deck shape on the nose a bit and also with the chines on the rails up front along with the volume distribution in the tail half

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #94 on: March 06, 2017, 03:52:23 PM »
Seems like no one has tried or owns one of those M24 boards at the moment.  ukgm - have you seen racers use the M24 last year?   
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ukgm

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #95 on: March 07, 2017, 12:05:07 AM »
Seems like no one has tried or owns one of those M24 boards at the moment.  ukgm - have you seen racers use the M24 last year?

No. Naish didn't have as much presence in the UK on hardboards the last few years. That will change this year as we're about to launch the UK hard board team here. FWIW, most of them (male and female) have mainly opted for the Maliko 24, not the flatwater Jav (or either board in a 26).

By the way, back to the thread itself, here is a very unscientific but interesting read nonetheless on an Allstar comparison I found last night: http://supvelocity.com/race-sup-speed-tests-comparing-the-2016-starboard-all-star-to-the-2017-all-star/
The testing itself is poor but it was interesting what they said about the 2017's stability and the differences. Seems like the 2016 board was an 'everyman' kind of a board.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 01:02:30 AM by ukgm »
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burchas

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #96 on: March 07, 2017, 04:43:46 AM »
Seems like no one has tried or owns one of those M24 boards at the moment.  ukgm - have you seen racers use the M24 last year?

You could ask off-shore, I'm pretty sure he did part of his usual DW run on M24 board.
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mr_proper

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #97 on: March 07, 2017, 06:55:30 AM »
By the way, back to the thread itself, here is a very unscientific but interesting read nonetheless on an Allstar comparison I found last night: http://supvelocity.com/race-sup-speed-tests-comparing-the-2016-starboard-all-star-to-the-2017-all-star/

Thanks for the link 👍
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Luc Benac

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #98 on: March 07, 2017, 07:31:25 AM »
Seems like the 2016 board was an 'everyman' kind of a board.

Don't say that - you are going to deflate any happy owner of the 2016 All Star - and put a big smile on Area10's face regarding the magic of Starboard marketing :-)
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Area 10

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #99 on: March 07, 2017, 08:11:56 AM »
Seems like the 2016 board was an 'everyman' kind of a board.

Don't say that - you are going to deflate any happy owner of the 2016 All Star - and put a big smile on Area10's face regarding the magic of Starboard marketing :-)
I thought that was meant as a compliment, wasn't it? The 2016 AS comes out of that comparison very well. It makes me wish I'd been able to buy one. I tried to, but the retailer was unable to confirm with me that the handle was in the right place (I knew someone who bought one that year and the handle was quite a way off, so wanted to know before I handed over a 2.5k GBP) because the distributor refused to unpack the board to check.

I think the 2016 AS is almost looking like a normal displacement nose board now, so I'm not surprised if it is a bit faster in pure flat water, also being a shade narrower. But in the comparison the distances paddled were very small, and they compared the rather heavy hybrid construction AS with the much lighter full carbon board, so the jury is still probably out. It would be interesting to compare the two boards in choppy ocean and beach race conditions.


Luc Benac

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #100 on: March 07, 2017, 08:26:20 AM »
Seems like the 2016 board was an 'everyman' kind of a board.

Don't say that - you are going to deflate any happy owner of the 2016 All Star - and put a big smile on Area10's face regarding the magic of Starboard marketing :-)
I thought that was meant as a compliment, wasn't it?

It depends for you and me absolutely, but I know of a few people that purchased the AS because it was to be a board of exception with a Connor like aura to it (more certainly the price was making it very exceptional when it came out!).
It looks like when a good design is already done, the tweaking or changes become a bit of a zero balance affair. Add a lit bit of speed, reduce a bit the stability and so on.....and not necessarily the manufacturer claim that it is both faster  and more stable.....
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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #101 on: March 07, 2017, 08:40:54 AM »
Well, by any measure, I'd say that the All Star 2016 design was a success. It sold well, and the scores of team riders that Starboard have (surely at least three times as many as any other brand?) got lots of podium finishes (although whether they did proportionally better than they should have done given their larger number of sponsored athletes would be interesting to investigate).

So you'd have to be pretty mealy-mouthed to criticise Starboard for the AS design. And the cost is not substantially larger than many other premium brands. However, whether the quality of the Starboard construction (and therefore value for money) matches the quality of other brands is a matter for more debate IMO.

If I were offered a 2016 AS now and a 2017 one, I'd actually choose the 2016. But then I like stability and adaptability. If you race a lot of flat water (and most races in my country are essentially flat water ones) then I guess you'd choose the 2017. I expect that for 2018 they'll go back to a more all-conditions design.

But it's great that Starboard are evolving their designs these days rather than having a lot of "one year wonders" like they used to. Naish too. I want to buy a design with proven pedigree, not the product of a hit-and-miss experiment.

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #102 on: March 07, 2017, 11:09:32 AM »
ukgm - thx for that AS link -> the review seems pretty much spot on.  The 2016 as an "everyman" kinda board is very accurate.  The 23 is tippy enough already in open ocean conditions.  Apparently the 2017 chamfered edges do in fact have pros and real cons.  But please keep us updated how the M24 riders perform vs the competition throughout the year.  Would expect some to podium.

buchas - thx yeah do remember offshore swapping with a Maliko.

offshore - by chance have you paddled the M24.  It looked like on the beach a 24 could have been laying there - but was kinda hard to tell.

A10 and Luc - the small evolutionary tweaks to the AS and Maliko make better sense for sure.  But SB should stop the year over year exaggerated marketing bs -> as all it does is erode consumer confidence - degrade the brand - and increase skepticism.  Most peeps round here have a pretty good bs meter.

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ukgm

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #103 on: March 07, 2017, 11:13:40 AM »
Seems like the 2016 board was an 'everyman' kind of a board.

Don't say that - you are going to deflate any happy owner of the 2016 All Star - and put a big smile on Area10's face regarding the magic of Starboard marketing :-)
I thought that was meant as a compliment, wasn't it? The 2016 AS comes out of that comparison very well. It makes me wish I'd been able to buy one. I tried to, but the retailer was unable to confirm with me that the handle was in the right place (I knew someone who bought one that year and the handle was quite a way off, so wanted to know before I handed over a 2.5k GBP) because the distributor refused to unpack the board to check.

I think the 2016 AS is almost looking like a normal displacement nose board now, so I'm not surprised if it is a bit faster in pure flat water, also being a shade narrower. But in the comparison the distances paddled were very small, and they compared the rather heavy hybrid construction AS with the much lighter full carbon board, so the jury is still probably out. It would be interesting to compare the two boards in choppy ocean and beach race conditions.

I wouldn't take much from their results. By using time as the metric and only one run, the results are all in the noise as far as i'm concerned - the placebo issue would be horrendous. You'll get more value from their anecdotes (which were useful). If i were buying a do it all board now, I'd opt for the 2016 board, not the 2017 version. Its a shame they've stopped making a wider version of their sprint board though.
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Luc Benac

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #104 on: March 07, 2017, 11:25:39 AM »
Its a shame they've stopped making a wider version of their sprint board though.

I could have gone for a used 2015 Sprint 25" - if one had existed and one had become available in our local used market -  as a flat water distance alternative.
But this might have be too similar to the Race 25" for Starboard to justify having this model I guess. In addition, it might makes sense from a marketing point of view to keep the Sprint as the elite model that only hard core racers use but then again I would prefer more sales....
So far I have been fairly lucky to have reasonable connections to the SUP scene locally and purchased all my boards from people I have paddled with at one time or the other.
I have to confess that it is a major deciding factor in my purchase as I can try the board and take advantage of the "winter" pricing.
So for me second hand availability of a board actually plays almost as important a role than a slight change in design. I just cannot muster the $$$ to buy brand new boards.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2017, 12:23:56 PM by Luc Benac »
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