Author Topic: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards  (Read 9723 times)

Eagle

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #30 on: February 26, 2017, 03:32:49 PM »
You did ok on that AS23 vs the 21.5 Hovie.  That little 23 is quite a versatile AW board.  Try it next in 15 kts DW.  Major fun city.   :)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

JEG

  • Malibu Status
  • **
  • Posts: 51
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #31 on: February 26, 2017, 05:19:45 PM »
Matt and I have had a few more chances to ride the 2017 AllStars and compare them to our usual boards. I used the 14x23 AllStar in a 9 km race yesterday and reported my comments in a blog post here:

http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2017/02/sup-race-report-mark-athanacios-2nd.html

Here are excerpts where I talk about my impressions of the AllStar:

"Note that Matt and I were not on our usual 14x23 Riviera and 12'6x24 Hovie boards, respectively, instead having been encouraged by CGT 's owners to test out the 2017 Starboard AllStar boards that CGT recently got in stock. We had already done some testing of these boards in the Imperial River, but we wanted to see how they worked over a long distance in varied conditions (boat wakes, chop, etc.), since the AllStar model is billed as being a fast, all-conditions raceboard. We used the fins that came with the Starboards- 18 cm short "Natural Winner" fins. The 12'6x24.5 Matt rode is the full carbon construction, and the 14x23 I rode is the less expensive "Hybrid" construction."

"I was a bit unsteady on the 14x23 AllStar compared with my more familiar 14x23 Riviera RP. The finbox on the AllStar is in a deeply recessed concave section of the hull, which I think reduces its effective length and its ability to steady the side-to-side movements of the board. I also think that the stability of the AllStar (like many boards) is affected by how far forward you stand. The nose is narrow and rounded relative to the tail, so if you're standing forward the board may be more apt to roll side to side. Finding the optimal standing position on the AllStar could involve a trade-off between standing further forward to fully engage the nose and lengthen the effective waterline, but standing far enough back to get the stability of the flatter part of the hull."

"The other board testing thing I did was put a larger fin on the 14x23 Starboard AllStar. That seemed to dull down it's squirrely, side-to-side tippyness."

Summary- 14x23 AllStar speed is on par with other 14x23 boards but it's stability is not quite as amazing as the advertising implies, at least not with the stubby stock fin.

good review and also imo if you are looking at size 14 x 24.5 allstar you need be less than 82kg (180lb), say around 75kg or less (170-165lb) to enjoy the board in all condition and if you are a pro or have great sup skill then ignore my opinion.

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #32 on: February 26, 2017, 05:54:40 PM »
At last some level-headed opinions on the All Star's famed stability. Well done guys, thanks.

Eagle

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2017, 08:48:19 AM »
FWS - your comments are spot on about the AS23.  The very deep concave is an extreme SB design approach.  My impressions are this helps with tracking and is supposed to help with release.  Helps to stand about where the handle is -> so the tail can release ok.  Any further back and it drags.  It is twitchy at first because of that.  If you have a narrow stance that helps stability a ton.  Were you standing close to the edge - or in say 3" on each side.

As a Riviera brand ambassador what pros did you find with the AS23 vs the Rivera 23 you race on?  And would you have placed faster or slower on the more stable 24.5 AS?  You seemed to place well on that AS23.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2017, 08:50:16 AM by Eagle »
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

FloridaWindSUP

  • Rincon Status
  • ***
  • Posts: 166
  • Marine Biologist, Riviera Paddlesurf Ambassador
    • View Profile
    • James' Blog
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #34 on: February 27, 2017, 06:59:20 PM »
JEG- I'm about 75 kg so I think I'm within the OK range for the 14x23 AllStar. I did demo the 14x24.5 in the fall, and it felt extremely stable but noticeably slower (more draggy) than the 14x23.

Eagle- I had seen some of the comments on the forum about trying a narrow stance, but I don't feel like I can put down full power unless I'm standing fairly wide, which on a 23" board is very near the edge.

As for pros and cons of AS23 vs Riviera 23 I'll give it my best shot.

Starboard AllStar Pros: 1) People seem to like the superman colors on the SB better than the "distressed mint" colors on my Riviera. 2) Very "corky" high volume nose made it simple to paddle upwind in chop when I did some rough water training on it last week. 3) It's true that it catches bumps easily and carries speed well going downwind in non-ideal conditions. 4) Nice stability towards the tail for buoy turns- it may be a little more stable when buoy turning than my Riviera is due to the concave tail on the SB vs. the vee tail on the Riviera. 5) Maneuverable for a 14; not overly directional.

Starboard AllStar Cons: 1) So far appears to be 0% faster than a Riviera, but is definitely 150-200% more expensive. 2) FCS mount for the speedcoach GPS is too close to your feet, so it's kind of hard to look at it and sometimes in the way when switching paddle sides. 3) "Twitchy" stability with the 7" stock fin; short fin box not compatible with some larger fins. 4) For the same price you could order a carbon custom from Riviera with whatever individual tweaks you wanted.
14x23 Riviera RP
14x27.25 Fanatic Falcon
11'8 Exocet WindSUP
10'4 Angulo WindSUP
...and a bunch of windsurf stuff

Eagle

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #35 on: February 27, 2017, 07:58:44 PM »
Yeah - seems about right.  The 25 we tried a few times had a lot more drag and was extremely stable.  That board seemed fine with 200 lb riders easily paddling on it last year.  Was way too stable for us.

The narrow stance thing is very helpful on that AS23 because of where the triple concaves are placed.  When standing near the edge every weight change is dramatically emphasized -> whereas when about 3-6" inboard everything stabilizes.  My stance has narrowed a lot on that board which is now reflected on my other boards as well.  On my Dom - each foot is about 6-8" inboard making that board feel over the top stable.  Virtually impossible to fall off now.  The power transmission was less at first -> but now is the same but way more efficient and balanced.  On none of my boards my feet are ever placed near the edge - unless surfing down and across swells.

For price - the carbon new was kinda silly.  So got mine for 1/2 price CL from the same racer who sold me the Dom years ago.  Was pure fluke.  Haha.  Twitchy is normal because of those deep concaves again.  You need to tip onto a side concave for more stability.  The FCS mount never use.  So basically your review pretty much matches up with my real world use.  Well done.   ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

ukgm

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2017, 02:53:15 AM »
At last some level-headed opinions on the All Star's famed stability. Well done guys, thanks.

Agreed. I tried a 12'6 24.5 the other week and (at 200lbs) found it too tippy. I thought it was just me. This said, everyone else on this forum seems superhuman as they seem to be riding 23 inch wide boards without a care in the world. I can't imagine doing a crowded race start on anything near that narrow.
Conflicts of interests: Naish UK Sponsored Rider

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2017, 05:10:14 AM »
It's not just you. I have a 14x23" and no way in hell would I race it. It's for training only, and is never really pleasant to paddle. I can't really get my HR fully up because the instability affects my cadence and ability to commit my whole body to the stroke.

As we all know, weight matters a lot. So does height. And age. Plus build and style of paddling. Some people who are light and slim need to concentrate on minimising drag since the power they generate at the blade is relatively modest. Whereas their more mesomorph colleagues may specialise in getting the power down so need a stable board to keep an even keel while doing so. So it just depends on your strengths and weaknesses I guess. Last year Larry Cain raced the 14x25 All Star rather than the 23 I think, for this reason.

There is also a bit of Emperor's new clothes stuff going on sometimes IMO, or at least, post-purchase rationalisation. And then there are others who just frankly like to brag about how narrow their boards are (often not mentioning actual race results..).

I tried a 21.5" wide board a few months ago. On my knees I could get it to go crazy fast. I couldn't believe the peak speeds I was getting. But once I stood up I did the slowest couple of miles I've ever done on a SUP! I think I was averaging about 3.5mph haha! At least I didn't fall in though... But even on my 23" wide board (or my 14x25) I'm slower over distance than I am on my 28.5" wide one. I think that for me the optimal width/stability ratio is probably somewhere around 26" wide. I'd like to try the 2017 14x26 Naish Javelin in flat water.

ukgm: in pure flat water, how much slower (if any) are you on the Naish Jav than the Maliko over, say, 5 miles? I see you had a recent race success in flat water on your Maliko.

Luc Benac

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 614
  • Super Natural British Columbia
    • View Profile
    • When not paddling...
    • Email
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2017, 07:51:13 AM »
This said, everyone else on this forum seems superhuman as they seem to be riding 23 inch wide boards without a care in the world.

Not quite...
I got my BF 24" for flat water at a very good price (which helps the decision making).
With the multi-fins "it is stable".
I will justify the quote/unquote by saying that as of now but after less than a dozen paddle on it, I still struggle to paddle the board with power for more than 3 km without feeling like I really need a pause.
I am not sure why exactly, as the board does not feel "tippy", but it might be inherent to the width that simply taxes the legs without one realising it on the moment. So paddling on your own, you feel like it is OK to pack and go after 6 km instead than after 10 km.
Don't get me wrong the narrow width makes it very nice to stack shoulders and the board is faster and accelerate nicely.
That said I do not thing that even with time, it will be able to replace my 26" of the exact same design (they were made for one person that did not take the boards after-all) for anything out at sea.
It has however I think many useful purposes:
1) as a fun fast flat water board that I know, I will still be able to paddle back to base even if the conditions worsen (I probably could not do that on a Sprint 23")
2) as a "race" board for the friendly informal races we have off-seasons
3) as a tool to challenge the comfort zone that I have on my other boards without falling in the water every 15 minutes
So even with a design that is inherently forgiving, I do not see myself going any narrower.

Of course , there is the Sprint UL 17'4 x 23", I wish I could paddle such a toothpick, reality check not unless it comes with amas on both side....



* Flat / Infinity Blackfish 14' x 24" Twin to Win LA (For Sale)
* All-around / Infinity Blackfish 14' x 26" Twin to Win LA
* Distance / Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" VMG Mako
* Downwind / Riviera RP-14 DW Carbon Innegra 14' x 26"

KeNalu Mana 90 & 82

Eagle

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2017, 08:28:09 AM »
Seems much ado about nothing.  Some like wider some like narrower boards.  So what.  We have boards 23-30" and have no probs about width or who rides what.  Peeps that ride and race that 21.5 Hovie or 21.5 Sprint good on them.  Requires a lot of skill and balance.  Gives the average joe a sense of perspective and appreciation what pros are capable of when they win or lose on those.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

ukgm

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2017, 12:49:25 PM »
It's not just you. I have a 14x23" and no way in hell would I race it. It's for training only, and is never really pleasant to paddle. I can't really get my HR fully up because the instability affects my cadence and ability to commit my whole body to the stroke.

As we all know, weight matters a lot. So does height. And age. Plus build and style of paddling. Some people who are light and slim need to concentrate on minimising drag since the power they generate at the blade is relatively modest. Whereas their more mesomorph colleagues may specialise in getting the power down so need a stable board to keep an even keel while doing so. So it just depends on your strengths and weaknesses I guess. Last year Larry Cain raced the 14x25 All Star rather than the 23 I think, for this reason.

There is also a bit of Emperor's new clothes stuff going on sometimes IMO, or at least, post-purchase rationalisation. And then there are others who just frankly like to brag about how narrow their boards are (often not mentioning actual race results..).

I tried a 21.5" wide board a few months ago. On my knees I could get it to go crazy fast. I couldn't believe the peak speeds I was getting. But once I stood up I did the slowest couple of miles I've ever done on a SUP! I think I was averaging about 3.5mph haha! At least I didn't fall in though... But even on my 23" wide board (or my 14x25) I'm slower over distance than I am on my 28.5" wide one. I think that for me the optimal width/stability ratio is probably somewhere around 26" wide. I'd like to try the 2017 14x26 Naish Javelin in flat water.

ukgm: in pure flat water, how much slower (if any) are you on the Naish Jav than the Maliko over, say, 5 miles? I see you had a recent race success in flat water on your Maliko.

The javelin accelerates much better but I still haven't done the scientific testing on it due to the weather being awful or the wind being in the wrong direction at my test venue. I've decided to wait until late spring.

I've spent the winter on the Maliko (which I love as an everyday board) but whether that's the right one in races is a gamble I've decided to go with in my early season races. It does struggle to go north of 9.5kph for long periods of time under my steam but I'm counting on busy starts and large trains this year and it's a very predictable board to deal with that. I'd love to go narrower but naishs 24 widths are too low in volume for me personally in my view. One thing I will say is that it might paddle with plenty of splash at the nose but it's deceptively fast - I ink many say the same about the new all star. The 2018 offerings may well prove interesting...

I'll get more data this weekend as I'm racing at a river race this Sunday which is likely to result in a time trial for me.
Conflicts of interests: Naish UK Sponsored Rider

Eagle

  • Teahupoo Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 1560
    • View Profile
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #41 on: February 28, 2017, 01:34:48 PM »
"I'd love to go narrower but naishs 24 widths are too low in volume for me personally in my view."

24 or 23 or 21.5 wide boards are very much designed for certain weight riders that have balance.  They are raced all the time at those widths round here.  So maybe try something like the Riviera RP24 FWS races on -> or Infinity BF24 that kayadogg is selling -

"Don't be intimidated by the width, this board is really stable for a 24" wide board. A buddy of mine who is in the 230-240LB range paddled it in open water conditions with no issues."

Most peeps that are deep into racing go 24 or 23 or 21.5 depending on the conditions that day.  They have multiple board choices.  Maybe look at another brand or go supuk custom.  Thank goodness racing is of little concern to my wife and I -> otherwise we would be training and racing all the time.  Instead we much prefer to relax on the water with friends and have fun -> then have a beer or two on the beach.   ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Area 10

  • Cortez Bank Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 2207
    • View Profile
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #42 on: February 28, 2017, 01:51:28 PM »
ukgm - 9.5kph seems very good to me for a planing nose board. For how long are you able to maintain those kind of speeds?

Luc Benac

  • Peahi Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 614
  • Super Natural British Columbia
    • View Profile
    • When not paddling...
    • Email
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #43 on: February 28, 2017, 02:10:28 PM »
ukgm - 9.5kph seems very good to me for a planing nose board. For how long are you able to maintain those kind of speeds?

Until the afterburners burn out :-)
* Flat / Infinity Blackfish 14' x 24" Twin to Win LA (For Sale)
* All-around / Infinity Blackfish 14' x 26" Twin to Win LA
* Distance / Ace-GT 17'4" x 27" VMG Mako
* Downwind / Riviera RP-14 DW Carbon Innegra 14' x 26"

KeNalu Mana 90 & 82

ukgm

  • Sunset Status
  • ****
  • Posts: 396
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #44 on: February 28, 2017, 02:57:42 PM »
"I'd love to go narrower but naishs 24 widths are too low in volume for me personally in my view."

24 or 23 or 21.5 wide boards are very much designed for certain weight riders that have balance.  They are raced all the time at those widths round here.  So maybe try something like the Riviera RP24 FWS races on -> or Infinity BF24 that kayadogg is selling -

"Don't be intimidated by the width, this board is really stable for a 24" wide board. A buddy of mine who is in the 230-240LB range paddled it in open water conditions with no issues."

Most peeps that are deep into racing go 24 or 23 or 21.5 depending on the conditions that day.  They have multiple board choices.  Maybe look at another brand or go supuk custom.  Thank goodness racing is of little concern to my wife and I -> otherwise we would be training and racing all the time.  Instead we much prefer to relax on the water with friends and have fun -> then have a beer or two on the beach.   ;)

Current sponsorship doesn't allow that. However, in future seasons, who knows !?
Conflicts of interests: Naish UK Sponsored Rider

 


* Recent Posts

* Recent Topics