Author Topic: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards  (Read 9722 times)

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #15 on: February 07, 2017, 04:03:02 PM »
Hey FWS - yeah upwind that little AS23 just hauls.  Just move back behind the handle and crank - it will split the chop and ride right over.  Awesome for that.  DW not so much for me.  Much prefer my surf Bullet V2 for small DW.  That board is in its element for that vs the 23 a bit too narrow in anything over 15 kts.  My pay grade is pretty low.  Haha.

Here is a track of my AS using 2 different fins.  Fin make a huge diff on that board.  Would guess that if you had more time with that AS23 your times would drop.  Maybe also try the Sprint 21.5 vs 23 as well.  :)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

gzasinets

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #16 on: February 07, 2017, 04:41:07 PM »
Well, I am the new owner of the 2017 carbon sandwich SB Allstar 24.5. Thanks Eagle for all your wisdom.  ;)
I was hesitating on 23 or 24.5 but my primary goal was rough water performance and somewhat faster flat water performance compared to my SIC Bullet V2. I demoed one for a while and decided on 24.5 since i felt confident I would use it for flat water/downwind/downbreeze conditions in the Gulf and Biscayne Bay when things get rougher. So today on the Gulf coast we had winds at 15-18mph with knee high swell/chop. Coming from bullet i know well my perceived effort and my average speed in upwind/downwind. But on Allstar i am about on average 1mph faster! In today's conditions my bullet average for a 1 mile downbreeze run would be around 5.6-5.8 but on allstar my average speed is 6.4mph. I think it has to do with narrower outline and different rockers. But I agree with Eagle that bullet definitely felt surfier than the allstar. I am just getting familiar with this new beast but so far i am in love. Yes and upwind performance is great too. So dialing in. Hopefully i will be completely comfortable doing any dw conditions up to 30mph on the allstar and keep my bullet for when Atlantic gets really angry.
2017 SB Allstar 14x24.5 CS
2016 SIC Bullet 14V2 SCC
2015 SIC Bullet 12.6 SCC
2015 Fanatic AllWave 8.11HRS
2016 Imagine Icon 9.6 WC
QB Trifecta 96
QB Trifecta 86
QB V Drive 91

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2017, 05:59:38 PM »
Well, I am the new owner of the 2017 carbon sandwich SB Allstar 24.5. Thanks Eagle for all your wisdom.  ;)
I was hesitating on 23 or 24.5 but my primary goal was rough water performance and somewhat faster flat water performance compared to my SIC Bullet V2.

Ha!  Major congrats gzasinets!  You will love that 24.5 for what you are looking to do with it.  Glad I could provide some assistance.  AS 24.5 and Bullet V2 combo is very solid.  Excellent speed increase over that surfy Bullet!  Enjoy!  :)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

ukgm

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2017, 03:14:05 AM »
If you are on a board that is too narrow for you then you tend to introduce rail steer through minute wobbles, and this affects tracking. This is how narrow boards can track apparently less well than wider ones, I think.

Mind you, you've also got the potential for a more efficient paddle stroke as the paddle is being stroked closer to the centreline. You'd hope that with the right fin, that would counter the tracking issues.
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Area 10

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2017, 05:46:37 AM »
If you are on a board that is too narrow for you then you tend to introduce rail steer through minute wobbles, and this affects tracking. This is how narrow boards can track apparently less well than wider ones, I think.

Mind you, you've also got the potential for a more efficient paddle stroke as the paddle is being stroked closer to the centreline. You'd hope that with the right fin, that would counter the tracking issues.
Yeah, but instability impairs your speed and tracking far more than an inch or two narrower can enhance it (through improving your stroke and less drag). There are a lot of racers out there who would be faster on a wider board. But the mantra of "narrow = fast" together with the ego aspect of wanting to be seen with a narrow board means that people often overlook the evidence of their own GPS, or blame some other aspect of the board's design.

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2017, 10:48:04 AM »
Yep GPS tracks and timed runs are always best.  Very hard to dispute over repeated set runs.  Def if a board is too tippy - that is a problem.  Case in point - the discontinued Race 25.  No hard edges made that board roll like a log.   ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2017, 02:28:19 PM »
In this vid - you can really notice the depth of the cutting boof design quite clearly - plus see how deep the centre concave is.  Still not sure about the chamfered edges though vs w/o on the 23 version.  I have to test that out myself.  Am very looking forward to trying out a 24.5 with my wife.  Think that board would be perfect for her.  She now has our Dom dialed in - and is ready to move on to something faster like that 24.5 with the extra edges.  Will be interesting to test one out at a demo this year.  If we got another board though - would have to trim out and part with one or 2 for space.  Probs 4 boards is optimal for us.  2 boards each -> AS23 and V2 for me - and AS24.5 and M14 for her.  Yeah -> that sounds about right.   Hmmm?  ::)

Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Area 10

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2017, 06:20:08 PM »
That's a lot of nose to be catching side winds...

Coming to a Starboard catalog soon: "For 2018 we have reduced the nose volume to aid with crosswinds, and rounded out the nose to prevent nose steer in downwind conditions..." blah blah blah

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2017, 09:02:02 PM »
Haha!  Yeah - looks like SB added more vee as well vs the 2016.  But even so - for AW the ht and vol s/b ok for our use.  For real DW runs and festive conditions - we would just pull out the V2 and M14 weapons anyways.  My wife actually gave me the green light on this today after a quick discussion.  So if the stars align - we may pick up a demo or CL deal this yr or next or whenever.  But like all our boards - if it happens it happens.  No worries either way. 

With 5 board options right now -> we always have something that works pretty much spot on.  We were actually talking how unstable the Dom was for her when she first started on day one.  And she can now paddle the 23 on flat no probs.  She def has progressed a long way. That Touring carbon was the key board in her SUP progression for sure.  Her balance has improved a huge amount - and something like that 24.5 would probs be perfect for her.  She def is ready as that 25 was super easy peasy with no tippy feeling at all last year.  :)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

yugi

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2017, 10:23:02 PM »
Man that guy in the video sure talked a lot and didn't say anything.

ukgm

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2017, 12:00:00 AM »
That's a lot of nose to be catching side winds...

Coming to a Starboard catalog soon: "For 2018 we have reduced the nose volume to aid with crosswinds, and rounded out the nose to prevent nose steer in downwind conditions..." blah blah blah

Too great a frequency (or too dramatic a change) with a boards design says more about the marketing department than it does about its design one.......
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yugi

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2017, 04:25:24 AM »
Haha!  Yeah - looks like SB added more vee as well vs the 2016.  But even so - for AW the ht and vol s/b ok for our use.  For real DW runs and festive conditions - we would just pull out the V2 and M14 weapons anyways.  My wife actually gave me the green light on this today after a quick discussion.  So if the stars align - we may pick up a demo or CL deal this yr or next or whenever.  But like all our boards - if it happens it happens.  No worries either way. 

With 5 board options right now -> we always have something that works pretty much spot on.  We were actually talking how unstable the Dom was for her when she first started on day one.  And she can now paddle the 23 on flat no probs.  She def has progressed a long way. That Touring carbon was the key board in her SUP progression for sure.  Her balance has improved a huge amount - and something like that 24.5 would probs be perfect for her.  She def is ready as that 25 was super easy peasy with no tippy feeling at all last year.  :)

Of course 5 board options work, and maybe theres a need to have a “his” and a “hers”. However here’s just a thought.

Consider a 3 board quiver hyposythis (Allstar23, Rail26, M14) and that of the two riders  “A”  is slightly faster and slightly better at handling chop/more difficult DW than rider “B”.

Flatwater: The AS23 is the optimal board, give it to rider B who can handle it on flats.
A light wind picks up and it gets choppy: Simply switch and give rider B the Rail which is the optimal board
Easy downbreezer: give rider B the Rail which is the optimal board , A rides the M14 if higher winds can be expected, or the AS23 if you think it stays light.
Sturdier downwind: give rider B the M14 which is the optimal board , A rides the Rail.
Heavy downwind: probably rider B sits this out if it’s really honking. Rider A take s the M14. 

In short rider B always gets the optimal board and Rider A takes another. Which has an advantage of leveling the playing field. Rider B enjoys the advantage. Rider A probably enjoys the additional challenge.
 
As Rider B improves to be able to go out on on bigger DWs on the M14 also rider A improves  skills to ride the Rail.

You will be very surprised at how fast and enjoyable the Rail26 is on flats and how quickly it gains advantage over other more-race-type boards for chop. It's surprisingly close in stability to an Allstar24.5. A little bit slower for pure flats but not lagging by much, quickly equivalent for chop, much better for sidewind and for DW. If you aren't both racing than it's something to think about.

Advantage. Buy one board, sell a couple. Opens the door for you to buy new. Rail26 new is not much more than a 2nd hand very recent carbon Allstar.

I still can’t get over that you aren’t on the board that  Jimmy made for you. It's a beauty. (<- yet another plus)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 04:35:10 AM by yugi »

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2017, 10:27:22 AM »
yugi - actually my plan A was hoping my wife could at some point ride our 2016 AS23 for AW -> and for me to get the 2017 AS23 or Sprint 23 or 21.5.  But thought that was too much of an ask.  So proposed a more conservative plan B.  Haha!

Will all depend on the demo and if those boards are available for us to test.  If our V2 fell off the rack and snapped - then might get a Rail 26.5 to replace it.  Am really quite amazed how versatile that little AS23 is handling rough water.

Trick now is -> to see if my wife can handle the AS23 in chop and cross chop.  Shhhh!   ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

yugi

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2017, 12:35:59 PM »
^that'll come with time on it

FloridaWindSUP

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2017, 02:47:36 PM »
Matt and I have had a few more chances to ride the 2017 AllStars and compare them to our usual boards. I used the 14x23 AllStar in a 9 km race yesterday and reported my comments in a blog post here:

http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2017/02/sup-race-report-mark-athanacios-2nd.html

Here are excerpts where I talk about my impressions of the AllStar:

"Note that Matt and I were not on our usual 14x23 Riviera and 12'6x24 Hovie boards, respectively, instead having been encouraged by CGT 's owners to test out the 2017 Starboard AllStar boards that CGT recently got in stock. We had already done some testing of these boards in the Imperial River, but we wanted to see how they worked over a long distance in varied conditions (boat wakes, chop, etc.), since the AllStar model is billed as being a fast, all-conditions raceboard. We used the fins that came with the Starboards- 18 cm short "Natural Winner" fins. The 12'6x24.5 Matt rode is the full carbon construction, and the 14x23 I rode is the less expensive "Hybrid" construction."

"I was a bit unsteady on the 14x23 AllStar compared with my more familiar 14x23 Riviera RP. The finbox on the AllStar is in a deeply recessed concave section of the hull, which I think reduces its effective length and its ability to steady the side-to-side movements of the board. I also think that the stability of the AllStar (like many boards) is affected by how far forward you stand. The nose is narrow and rounded relative to the tail, so if you're standing forward the board may be more apt to roll side to side. Finding the optimal standing position on the AllStar could involve a trade-off between standing further forward to fully engage the nose and lengthen the effective waterline, but standing far enough back to get the stability of the flatter part of the hull."

"The other board testing thing I did was put a larger fin on the 14x23 Starboard AllStar. That seemed to dull down it's squirrely, side-to-side tippyness."

Summary- 14x23 AllStar speed is on par with other 14x23 boards but it's stability is not quite as amazing as the advertising implies, at least not with the stubby stock fin.
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14x27.25 Fanatic Falcon
11'8 Exocet WindSUP
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