Author Topic: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards  (Read 10139 times)

FloridaWindSUP

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A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« on: February 07, 2017, 04:30:06 AM »
Our local shop got a shipment of 2017 Starboards including a 14x23 AllStar and a 12'6x24.5 Allstar for demo. That brought more people than usual to our shop team practice last night. Some of us did the demos formally, as a speed test.

400 m one way. 1 minute rest. 400 m return. Take the speed average of the paired runs. Then take a longer rest, then repeat the test with another board. Make sure you redo the first board later to make sure you weren't biased by being fresher on the initial run.

These were my results:

Board                    SPM   KPH
SB 14x23 Allstar   63.25   10.14
14x23 RP 2017   64           10.24
12'6x23 Hovie GTO   63.5           9.38
SB 14x23 Allstar   64.5           10.13

I didn't have enough daylight and energy to include the 12'6 AllStar in the test. Anyway, I was glad that my Riviera RP was, by a small margin, #1. Being more familiar with it probably helped, though. The full strava data for me and one of my teammates (who did test the 12'6 SB) are here:

https://www.strava.com/activities/857808564
https://www.strava.com/activities/857828055
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Area 10

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2017, 04:43:18 AM »
Interesting. But what were the conditions?

It would hardly be surprising if a flat water oriented board like the Riviera was faster in flat water than the All Star, which is an all-conditions board, so will necessarily have compromised speed in pure flat water.

Chilly

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2017, 05:21:26 AM »
I recently got to paddle the 2017 All Star 14x24.5. Itís a big improvement in flatwater over the 2016. I donít have data but could see that it slices through the water better. Also one of the things I didnít like about the 2016 was that it tracked to good, but they moved the fin box about 6 inches forward on the 2017 making it more maneuverable. The only thing I didnít like was the increase volume on the nose.
 
How did the stability compare between the two and any side by side pictures?
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FloridaWindSUP

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2017, 05:36:15 AM »
Interesting. But what were the conditions?

Good question. Conditions were flat water near slack high tide in a narrow river / canal. Only bumps were from other paddlers' wakes. Staying in the center part of the narrow river and threading the needle through some bends and overhanging trees and shallow spots was the only challenge. That made it helpful to have a feel for the way your board tracked and steered. I think I could plan my curves a little better on my own board than the others.
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FloridaWindSUP

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2017, 05:53:25 AM »
I recently got to paddle the 2017 All Star 14x24.5. Itís a big improvement in flatwater over the 2016. I donít have data but could see that it slices through the water better. Also one of the things I didnít like about the 2016 was that it tracked to good, but they moved the fin box about 6 inches forward on the 2017 making it more maneuverable. The only thing I didnít like was the increase volume on the nose.
 
How did the stability compare between the two and any side by side pictures?

The 2017 AllStar 14x23 was definitely not "too tracky". In fact it turned more easily than I was used to so I probably switched sides more when I was using it. I did not think the basic stability was any better than on my Riviera, and it may have been a little worse, which would make sense because the Riviera carries more width and flatness further forward. The other testers were split in their opinion's on the board's stability, but nobody thought it was miraculously more stable than the average 23 wide board. One area where I thought the AllStar's stability was good was when stepping back for a buoy turn. I'll try to get some side by side pictures.
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baddog

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2017, 07:54:31 AM »
Looking at the 12'6" data, it seems impossible slow.  5 mph on my 9'5" surf shape would seem doable in a sprint.  Am I miscalculating somehow?

FloridaWindSUP

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2017, 08:34:01 AM »
Looking at the 12'6" data, it seems impossible slow.  5 mph on my 9'5" surf shape would seem doable in a sprint.  Am I miscalculating somehow?

9.38 kph is 5.83 mph. It ain't easy to sustain that over 400 m on a 12'6, and do it again in the opposite direction 1 minute later. At that speed 400 m takes about 2 1/2 minutes, and my body is not really capable of doing a 100% sprint for more than 1 minute, so the test is kind of a combination of sprint speed and just "going hard" speed. Max speeds I hit on the 12'6 during the trial were 11.something kph (~7 mph), but obviously that wasn't sustained for the whole interval.

That said, I was kind of disappointed that my speed on the 12'6 was so much lower than on the 14s. I think not being used to the feel of the 12'6, and having to change sides more often (which is more costly on the 12'6 since it decelerates so easily) contributed to my relatively low speeds on it. I'd like to repeat this test with some more 12'6 boards, like the 12'6 AllStar and a 12'6x22 Riviera that the shop has.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 08:35:52 AM by FloridaWindSUP »
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baddog

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2017, 09:13:30 AM »
Looking at the 12'6" data, it seems impossible slow.  5 mph on my 9'5" surf shape would seem doable in a sprint.  Am I miscalculating somehow?

9.38 kph is 5.83 mph.

Whoops!  I meant the 12'6" x 24.5" All Star from the link you supplied for Matthew K.  His speed calculated out to 5 mph.  5.83 and I wouldn't have posted :)

I should also add, I'd be lucky to do that over 100m, let alone 400m x 2.  With a bit of a url hack, I see Matt did 8.344 kph / 5.15 mph on the 14 x 23 All Star and that makes the 8.05 kph / 5.00 mph on the 12'6" x 24.5" All Star a lot more meaningful.

Now, we need to get you on that 12'6" All Star!  Fun data, regardless.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2017, 09:48:05 AM by baddog »

Eagle

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2017, 09:18:10 AM »
FWS - interesting test.  Normally my times increase a lot  - as more sprint runs are made.  Your 4th run on the AS23 shows that speed to be very consistent to run 1.  Did you feel maybe you were more comfortable on it the second time?  As well - how would the 2017 AS23 and your RP23 compare in say upwind in chop if you were to guess?  My 2016 AS23 handles small chop like it is not even there.  Just floats right over and is so efficient paddling.  Feels kinda like cheating the wind.  Very low resistance and drag with that cutting boof design.  Also did you like the 2017 triple concaves and chamfered edges better than the 2016 w/o?  I find my triple concave design to be already perfect - as it gives me something to stabilize on vs roll.  Granted my balance is pretty crappy in steep cross chop on that board.
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ukgm

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2017, 10:13:47 AM »

I would recommend testing boards at the speed a paddler themselves races at. Sprint stuff can skew a boards true ability. Also, I would recommend taking a systems approach and using a stroke index as the metric (stroke length x average speed) using a garmin or a speedcoach. Physiologically, taking the effort upto a point where its a struggle means you'll add a lot of error into the testing that won't occur in your racing.

I'm very curious to see what board manufacturers go next for 2018.
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FloridaWindSUP

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2017, 10:35:11 AM »
Whoops!  I meant the 12'6" x 24.5" All Star from the link you supplied for Matthew K.  His speed calculated out to 5 mph.  5.83 and I wouldn't have posted :)

I should also add, I'd be lucky to do that over 100m, let alone 400m x 2.  With a bit of a url hack, I see Matt did 8.344 kph / 5.15 mph on the 14 x 23 All Star and that makes the 8.05 kph / 5.00 mph on the 12'6" x 24.5" All Star a lot more meaningful.

Baddog, you're getting goofy numbers somehow. :) I have that Matt averaged 9.2 kph / 5.7 mph on the 12'6x24.5 AllStar, and 9.5 kph / 5.9 mph on the 14x23 Allstar. Maybe you're using his total time instead of his moving time? Remember the test is a 2 x 400 m, with a 1 minute rest between the two. If you're counting the 1 minute rest as part of the time you'll be underestimating the speed. Maybe you have to be signed into Strava to see the right stats and stuff. Matt also was wearing a HR monitoring during the tests so you can see his HR zip up and peg at around 185 on each of his runs, but again, maybe you have to be signed into strava to see some of that. 
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FloridaWindSUP

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2017, 11:20:24 AM »
FWS - interesting test.  Normally my times increase a lot  - as more sprint runs are made.  Your 4th run on the AS23 shows that speed to be very consistent to run 1.  Did you feel maybe you were more comfortable on it the second time?  As well - how would the 2017 AS23 and your RP23 compare in say upwind in chop if you were to guess?  My 2016 AS23 handles small chop like it is not even there.  Just floats right over and is so efficient paddling.  Feels kinda like cheating the wind.  Very low resistance and drag with that cutting boof design.  Also did you like the 2017 triple concaves and chamfered edges better than the 2016 w/o?  I find my triple concave design to be already perfect - as it gives me something to stabilize on vs roll.  Granted my balance is pretty crappy in steep cross chop on that board.

Hi Eagle- Normally my sprint runs decrease too, but in this test I had relatively long breaks on shore waiting for my turn, which helped. Yes, I do think I was more comfortable the second time on the AllStar, which cancelled out my being more tired.

My Riviera handles conditions without much fuss, but I probably wouldn't describe its rough water upwind/downwind performance with the same superlatives I hear you using for the AllStar. I'll try to do some testing at the beach to see if there's any big difference. I didn't spend enough time on the 2016 AllStar to be able to tell any difference between bottom shape effects.
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baddog

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 02:20:27 PM »
Whoops!  I meant the 12'6" x 24.5" All Star from the link you supplied for Matthew K.  His speed calculated out to 5 mph.  5.83 and I wouldn't have posted :)

I should also add, I'd be lucky to do that over 100m, let alone 400m x 2.  With a bit of a url hack, I see Matt did 8.344 kph / 5.15 mph on the 14 x 23 All Star and that makes the 8.05 kph / 5.00 mph on the 12'6" x 24.5" All Star a lot more meaningful.

Baddog, you're getting goofy numbers somehow...

Must be.  When I go to Matt's Strava link the only data I see is .7 k for distance and 5:13 for the moving time.  That's how I calculated the speed.  His 14' x 23' data was .7 k and 5:02 and again that's what I used.

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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2017, 02:38:29 PM »
Interesting. I'd be looking for more than a 0.01 Km/h speed advantage for the risk of using a narrow board and getting my hair wet.

What is your weight?

Surprised on the narrowest board you got most yaw. I'd expect it would be easiest to have a directionaly neutral (vert as viewed from front) shaft on the narrowest board.

Practice makes perfect. I suggest to ask the shop to loan you the AllStar x23 and x24.5 until xmas so you can get tons of milage on them and report back if those numbers change. Let the shop know thereís a world full of paddlers needing your scientific input.


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Re: A little speed testing SB AllStar 14x23 and other boards
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2017, 02:48:57 PM »
If you are on a board that is too narrow for you then you tend to introduce rail steer through minute wobbles, and this affects tracking. This is how narrow boards can track apparently less well than wider ones, I think.

 


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