Author Topic: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]  (Read 344454 times)

PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1140 on: March 25, 2017, 03:45:28 PM »
I've tried to explain that for some time, Tom. That isn't anything new or surprising. The US will experience a growing deficiency of low and midlevel skilled workers. We have a declining birthrate, retiring boomers and postboomers, and an upcoming population of people disinclined to accept low wage or low-status jobs. That isn't some theoretical idea, it's statistically verifiable and the population trends are undeniable to anyone willing to look at the numbers and do the math. Instead, people quote anecdotal experiences about how hard it is for young people to get living wage jobs.

the situation will get a lot worse, and it will have a large negative effect on our economy.  The average age of electricians is 55. Most of the skilled tradesmen (and to a small degree, women) in the USA have grey hair. And they don't keep working past 65. In fact, over 50% retire by 63.

We do indeed have an immigration problem.

Starman, I watched Al Franken grilling Gorsuch. It was the stupidest thing I've seen in a long time other than any Trump news conference. The supreme court is not now, and never has been any place you should look for common sense.  Franken made a fool of himself.
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headmount

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1141 on: March 25, 2017, 08:36:52 PM »
He's a comedian.  What did you expect?

Area 10

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1142 on: March 26, 2017, 12:08:21 AM »
Why did Franken make a fool of himself?

In that particular clip I thought Gorsuch looked like the standard career-politician type Washington Weasel. Which was presumably Franken's intent.

Are you right-leaning guys just latching onto any sense of normality given that you have just elected a freak show?

But, again, I'm just an outsider, so may need the finer points of all this intrigue explained to me. I'm not getting why you seem to think Gorsuch is the answer to any of the issues you've raised about the Washington elite, since to me he looks exactly like more of the same. What am I missing?

PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1143 on: March 26, 2017, 01:25:14 AM »
Nothing complicated, just the function and purpose of the supreme court--to interpret and clarify legislation passed by congress and verify its constitutionality, and to adjudicate individual cases to reflect the gradual changes in the will of society. Gorsuch isn't a Washington Weasel, he's a judge in Colorado. What's at question is whether judges should be activist and bypass the lawmaking function that serves as one of our constitutional checks and balances and introduce uncertainty as to how judges uphold the law in the future, or whether they should feel free to interpret the law as they choose to. Franken bypassed the purpose and intent of Gorsuch's ruling and made it about emotion and an individual case. Lower court judges can afford to be reasonable and emotional, the higher courts need to worry more about precedence, the law as written, and constitutionality. Gorsuch decision was made in the court of appeals.

The little clip was the least of it. Franken made an ass of himself. Most of the media coverage is equally idiotic. He wasn't condemning the guy to freeze to death.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 01:31:03 AM by PonoBill »
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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1144 on: March 26, 2017, 05:16:56 AM »
I wasn't talking about the merits of the case, but the way Gorsuch handled the questioning. It would have been easy to deal with Franken's point. But Gorsuch looked flustered by a line of questioning that he must have encountered before, and he went all Washington Weasel "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" when asked direct questions about eg. if he'd have liked to be on the road with the guy. That part of Gorsuch's performance, at least, looked weak. These were not difficult questions but he flunked the opportunity to look like a plain-speaking normal individual rather than just another out-of-touch Stepford career-politician-cover-my-ass-at-all-costs type. And I thought you guys hated that type.

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1145 on: March 26, 2017, 08:59:58 AM »
I wasn't talking about the merits of the case, but the way Gorsuch handled the questioning. It would have been easy to deal with Franken's point. But Gorsuch looked flustered by a line of questioning that he must have encountered before, and he went all Washington Weasel "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" when asked direct questions about eg. if he'd have liked to be on the road with the guy. That part of Gorsuch's performance, at least, looked weak. These were not difficult questions but he flunked the opportunity to look like a plain-speaking normal individual rather than just another out-of-touch Stepford career-politician-cover-my-ass-at-all-costs type. And I thought you guys hated that type.

You are missing the point a bit. He is sitting to be a judge - not a politician (at least that is the hope, and on those grounds Gorsuch has been good). We want a judge who will adjudicate based on the law.  He is attempting to make the point that his personal opinion on the individual situation has no bearing on the case. Franken looked like a turd throughout the confirmation hearing, like he had no idea of what the SCOTUS function is. 
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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1146 on: March 26, 2017, 09:13:35 AM »
I wasn't talking about the merits of the case, but the way Gorsuch handled the questioning. It would have been easy to deal with Franken's point. But Gorsuch looked flustered by a line of questioning that he must have encountered before, and he went all Washington Weasel "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" when asked direct questions about eg. if he'd have liked to be on the road with the guy. That part of Gorsuch's performance, at least, looked weak. These were not difficult questions but he flunked the opportunity to look like a plain-speaking normal individual rather than just another out-of-touch Stepford career-politician-cover-my-ass-at-all-costs type. And I thought you guys hated that type.

You are missing the point a bit. He is sitting to be a judge - not a politician (at least that is the hope, and on those grounds Gorsuch has been good). We want a judge who will adjudicate based on the law.  He is attempting to make the point that his personal opinion on the individual situation has no bearing on the case. Franken looked like a turd throughout the confirmation hearing, like he had no idea of what the SCOTUS function is.

Franken was making political points and ramping up the base.  He is well aware that Gorsuch is a smart guy and is not going to blunder on a litmus test question or partiality issue.  They weren't talking to each other at all.  Same room, two separate conversations.  They both look like they had an enjoyable time of it.  Gorsuch has been waiting to recite the words to get him through this since Law School.  Say those words and get the lifetime appointment.  Once on the bench I expect a Land's End version of Scalia.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 09:15:24 AM by Admin »

PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1147 on: March 26, 2017, 09:56:16 AM »
I wasn't talking about the merits of the case, but the way Gorsuch handled the questioning. It would have been easy to deal with Franken's point. But Gorsuch looked flustered by a line of questioning that he must have encountered before, and he went all Washington Weasel "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" when asked direct questions about eg. if he'd have liked to be on the road with the guy. That part of Gorsuch's performance, at least, looked weak. These were not difficult questions but he flunked the opportunity to look like a plain-speaking normal individual rather than just another out-of-touch Stepford career-politician-cover-my-ass-at-all-costs type. And I thought you guys hated that type.

You are missing the point a bit. He is sitting to be a judge - not a politician (at least that is the hope, and on those grounds Gorsuch has been good). We want a judge who will adjudicate based on the law.  He is attempting to make the point that his personal opinion on the individual situation has no bearing on the case. Franken looked like a turd throughout the confirmation hearing, like he had no idea of what the SCOTUS function is.

Franken was making political points and ramping up the base.  He is well aware that Gorsuch is a smart guy and is not going to blunder on a litmus test question or partiality issue.  They weren't talking to each other at all.  Same room, two separate conversations.  They both look like they had an enjoyable time of it.  Gorsuch has been waiting to recite the words to get him through this since Law School.  Say those words and get the lifetime appointment.  Once on the bench I expect a Land's End version of Scalia.

Absolutely right.

It's a show. Gorsuch is a surprisingly good candidate, I expected something much more radical and stupid from Trump. Garland was an equally good nomination, and not much different in philosophy or background from Gorsuch. Either of them would/will be very much like Justice Scalia. Either of them would do the job properly and maintain separation and balance of power.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 09:58:18 AM by PonoBill »
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headmount

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1148 on: March 26, 2017, 10:06:07 AM »
Yeah I also thought Garland was as equally qualified and the GOP didn't even give him a hearing.  So this isn't a rational deliberation.  It's all about anger and revenge even though Gorsuch is qualified.  It's as funny to see Mitch act all bent out of shape as to why the Dems are resisting Gorsuch as it is to watch Franken do his skit.  Franken at least doesn't take himself so seriously as the pious McConnell.

But Gorsuch will make it.  It'll be one of the few things this admin accomplishes.

starman

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1149 on: March 26, 2017, 10:11:31 AM »
What an interesting diversion of my post. I thought it was going to lead to a discussion of Gorsuch's suitability for the Supreme Court. After all every judge who ruled on the "Frozen Trucker" case ruled against the trucking company. I kind of feel that decisions like Gorsuch are why most people have little confidence in the court system of getting things right for the little guy. Never mind that it should be Merrick Garland being questioned, Gorsuch showed his true values and exactly why he was nominated by Trump. This whole Originalism movement is just an excuse to wordsmith one's way to an favorable outcome. It has nothing to do with justice for the common man and women which I would think would be rather important.

But please continue weighing in on Senator Frankin and his performance.

PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1150 on: March 26, 2017, 10:27:37 AM »
They are all hypocritical assholes. The surprising part to me is always how well the idiot show works. The media is praising Franken's insightful questions. Bunch of maroons. And yeah, absent some strange circumstance, Gorsuch will get in.

It will be interesting to see his first few decisions and see whether or not he can assume some kind of leadership role. I don't expect much drama, an originalist like him isn't likely to run around changing interpretations that have been in place for any length of time. The legal theory behind even controversial issues that have survived political storms is similar to evolution--the fact that a position survives is an indication that society supports it, even when there are vocal opponents. Higher court judges pay a lot more attention to the will of society than the whims.

There are lot of good books on the supreme court. I read quite a few of them during the Garland nonsense--and yes, Trump shouldn't have a nomination to play with, Garland was an excellent choice and should already be in place. And Starman, Garland is most definitely an originalist.  "The Nines" is excellent--it's simply a good read, Sandra Day Occonor's and Sonia Sotomayor's books are insightful and good. Five Chiefs was tough going for some reason, I don't remember what. And there's a book about the role of dissent that I liked--let me look: Dissent and the Supreme Court.  The first chapter is a particularly good explanation of how the court functions.

« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 10:30:19 AM by PonoBill »
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tautologies

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1151 on: April 03, 2017, 05:23:45 PM »

So how about the blackwater - Russia meetings? Still nothing to be worried about? Still we won, you lost so STFU?

I'm not a tinfoil hat guy, but when Prince brother of DeVos and large contributor of Trump holds secret meetings with Russia before the inauguration, I am not sure how one can still try to pretend everything is the way it should be. When a DeVos organization (spectrum health) coincidentally pings a Russian bank (Alpha) (as part of a few allowed IPs) in October 2016 and Trumps constant defence of a state he in any other world would be fighting tooth and nail not be be seen with I am beyond imagining this being a coincidence. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/blackwater-founder-held-secret-seychelles-meeting-to-establish-trump-putin-back-channel/2017/04/03/95908a08-1648-11e7-ada0-1489b735b3a3_story.html?utm_term=.9ab1da8d5d4e

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/10/was_a_server_registered_to_the_trump_organization_communicating_with_russia.html


tautologies

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1152 on: April 12, 2017, 12:25:25 PM »

Here is a long rant from Huffington Post. Ok might very well be a DEM leaning writing, but most of these aren't open to interpretation...they are factual pieces of information: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/an-update-for-trump-voters_us_58ed00d2e4b0ca64d9199c3b?

He said he wouldn’t bomb Syria. You bought it. Then he bombed Syria.

He said he’d build a wall along the border with Mexico. You bought it. Now his secretary of homeland security says “It’s unlikely that we will build a wall.”

He said he’d clean the Washington swamp. You bought it. Then he brought into his administration more billionaires, CEOs, and Wall Street moguls than in any administration in history, to make laws that will enrich their businesses.

He said he’d repeal Obamacare and replace it with something “wonderful.” You bought it. Then he didn’t.

He said he’d use his business experience to whip the White House into shape. You bought it. Then he created the most chaotic, dysfunctional, back-stabbing White House in modern history, in which no one is in charge.

He said he’d release his tax returns, eventually. You bought it. He hasn’t, and says he never will.

He said he’d divest himself from his financial empire, to avoid any conflicts of interest. You bought it. He remains heavily involved in his businesses, makes money off of foreign dignitaries staying at his Washington hotel, gets China to give the Trump brand trademark and copyright rights, manipulates the stock market on a daily basis, and has more conflicts of interest than can even be counted.

He said Clinton was in the pockets of Goldman Sachs, and would do whatever they said. You bought it. Then he put half a dozen Goldman Sachs executives in positions of power in his administration.

He said he’d surround himself with all the best and smartest people. You bought it. Then he put Betsy DeVos, opponent of public education, in charge of education; Jeff Sessions, opponent of the Voting Rights Act, in charge of voting rights; Ben Carson, opponent of the Fair Housing Act, in charge of fair housing; Scott Pruitt, climate change denier, in charge of the Environmental Protection Agency; and Russian quisling Rex Tillerson as Secretary of State.

He said he’d faithfully execute the law. You bought it. Then he said his predecessor, Barack Obama, spied on him, without any evidence of Obama ever doing so, in order to divert attention from the FBI’s investigation into collusion between his campaign and Russian operatives to win the election.

He said he knew more about strategy and terrorism than the generals did. You bought it. Then he green lighted a disastrous raid in Yemen- even though  his generals said it would be a terrible idea. This raid resulted in the deaths of a Navy SEAL, an 8-year old American girl, and numerous civilians. The actual target of the raid escaped, and no useful intel was gained

He called Barack Obama “the vacationer-in-Chief” and accused him of playing more rounds of golf than Tiger Woods. He promised to never be the kind of president who took cushy vacations on the taxpayer’s dime, not when there was so much important work to be done. You bought it. He has by now spent more taxpayer money on vacations than Obama did in the first 3 years of his presidency. Not to mention all the money taxpayers are spending protecting his family, including his two sons who travel all over the world on Trump business.

He called CNN, the Washington Post and the New York Times “fake news” and said they were his enemy. You bought it. Now he gets his information from Fox News, Breitbart, Gateway Pundit, and InfoWars.

Admin

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1153 on: April 12, 2017, 04:24:23 PM »
NATO is no longer obsolete. 
China is no longer a currency manipulator.
Our relationship with Russia is near its lowest point ever. 
"Do not attack Syria. There is no upside and tremendous downside".

My mouth just moves like this.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 04:29:54 PM by Admin »

LaPerouseBay

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #1154 on: April 12, 2017, 04:27:25 PM »
/
He said he’d release his tax returns, eventually. You bought it. He hasn’t, and says he never will.
/

How could he?  The press would expose him on so many levels.  "Too big to fail" ring a bell?  We're boned. 
   
http://www.pulitzer.org/winners/david-fahrenthold

/
He said he’d repeal Obamacare and replace it with something “wonderful.” You bought it. Then he didn’t.
/

I'm of the opinion that heathcare reform is virtually hopeless.  Kai Lenny's Mom is a physician at Kaiser.  Andrea Moeller has Kaiser and she's an EMT.  Both of them had to leave the state and pay for surgery - out of pocket.  Health care is a license to steal in the USA.

Big pharma is absolutely ruthless.

http://www.pulitzer.org/winners/eric-eyre   
 

 
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