Author Topic: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]  (Read 344602 times)

PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #795 on: March 05, 2017, 03:56:38 PM »
What I find interesting is that the DNVs can't find the energy to fill out a mail-in ballot, or go to the polls and vote, but they can find the energy to make signs, put on their masks, go outside and protest.

I'm pretty sure they are the 60 percent who didn't have anyone to vote for. Of the people who voted (like me), how many held their nose and voted for someone they despise?

I think it's time for a real third party--a centrist party. Not Libertarians--I like some of their viewpoints, but in general they're loonies. I think a party in the middle would kick the D and R asses.
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supthecreek

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #796 on: March 05, 2017, 11:18:27 PM »
Bellow all you like Creek, but why did you twist the quote to make a point that is completely false?

well Bill... it's because I mis-read one of several very long reports. Simple. I made a mistake when I grabbed the wrong quote.

I was responding to A10's statement that: soccer Moms probably kill twice as many people as illegal immigrants.
Here is the part I "twisted"....  to make the "completely false" point.

"The proportion of fatal-crash involved drivers of any given age who were unlicensed decreased
as age increased across the entire age spectrum, whereas young adults ages 21–34 were the most
likely to have had a suspended or revoked license. Nearly half of all fatal crash involved drivers
who lacked a valid license
(unlicensed or license suspended/revoked/expired/cancelled/ denied)
were ages 21–34 (48.8%). Fifty percent of all unlicensed and invalidly licensed drivers in fatal
crashes had alcohol in their system,
43.0% had a blood alcohol concentration (BAC)
"
Apparently this proves that my point is completely false...this clearly isn't an illegal immigrant problem.... it is all those unlicensed soccer Moms.

Here is another copy/paste from the same article (By Triple AAA)
"in years 2007–2009 Overall, 18.2% of fatal crashes involved a driver who was unlicensed or invalidly licensed; these crashes resulted in the
deaths of 21,049 people. T
"[/i]
only 21,000 deaths by unlicensed  or invalidly licensed drivers in 3 years... yep, those pesky soccer Mom's.

Apologies.

yugi

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #797 on: March 05, 2017, 11:27:34 PM »
Bellow all you like Creek, but why did you twist the quote to make a point that is completely false?

Now that the White House is setting the example by doing this so much is this a rising trend? Is it now considered normal?

supthecreek

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #798 on: March 06, 2017, 04:36:57 AM »
Yes, We are all liars and don't deserve a voice at all.

What is it you are trying to do here?
Am I not allowed to speak?


PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #799 on: March 06, 2017, 07:15:41 AM »
I don't remember anyone trying to shut you down.  If you mean disagreeing with what you say, or reading the reports you cite, that's the other side of speaking up--for better or worse. And I don't disagree with what you say, I don't find thousands of preventable deaths to be trivial in any way. The same kind of sob story could be written about a family losing their Mom to a drunk illegal alien.

We need real immigration reform. It's a political football because it works very well as a political football. Both parties want to use immigrants--legal and illegal--to their benefit. I think it's incredibly naive to think about the issue any other way. You can sympathize with individual stories all you like, but until the underlying issues get solved, those human lives are the plaything of politics and politicians. And the media feeds the monster.

Trump isn't doing anything to fix the problem, he's just enforcing laws we already have. I think that's pretty stupid, he has a majority, he could do something useful. Of course the screaming would increase dramatically since the opposition doesn't want the problem solved--they want to return to power.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 07:19:50 AM by PonoBill »
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tautologies

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #800 on: March 06, 2017, 11:00:43 AM »
SUP,
It certainly wasn't my intention to say you can't have a say, but that quote was the basis of a long hypothesis you had about how many illegal immigrants were involved in fatal accidents and the numbers in the first sentence in the first report you cited showed that you had misquoted.   

I doubt there will be much resistance against deporting illegal immigrants that break the law...the point I am making is that there needs to be due process and there needs to be proper vetting of laws...you can't just say shit because you heard it somewhere and then put it into executive orders. The current government makes up realities and that is incredibly dangerous. 

Now I still wonder at what point do think Trump goes too far? Having a lot of people with deep ties to Russia?  When he makes unsubstantiated claims that the previous president ordered illegal surveillance? Is that too far? 

Weasels wake

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #801 on: March 06, 2017, 11:16:33 AM »


Now I still wonder at what point do think Trump goes too far? Having a lot of people with deep ties to Russia?  When he makes unsubstantiated claims that the previous president ordered illegal surveillance? Is that too far?
To quote a line that the liberals love to throw out there, whether there is evidence or not, "the serious of the charge, demands that we investigate".
It works both ways.
It takes a quiver to do that.

tautologies

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #802 on: March 06, 2017, 11:43:07 AM »

To quote a line that the liberals love to throw out there, whether there is evidence or not, "the serious of the charge, demands that we investigate".
It works both ways.

Wait what? You can't even begin to compare it.

Several members of the Trump government and provably lied about meeting with Russia. One of his advisors has been in business with Russia for ages, and another claimed to have backdoor connections to Wikileaks.

On the other hand you have a paranoid President that just claimed something.


Surely any legitimate claims warrant further investigation, but delusions and paranoia does not.

SUP Leave

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #803 on: March 06, 2017, 12:34:18 PM »
 

Now I still wonder at what point do think Trump goes too far? Having a lot of people with deep ties to Russia?  When he makes unsubstantiated claims that the previous president ordered illegal surveillance? Is that too far?

Trump goes too far almost every day. Why he insists on tweeting out these trivialities for his base are beyond me. I think he is going to, or has possibly crossed the point that reluctant Trump voters are jumping off the train. He needs to get some part of his plan moving, not just EO's -actual work. I coach girls basketball and I always say "do your job". Little kids (girls especially) get tied down into worrying over what someone else said, or didn't do, even a foul look can upset them. I wish I could get a timeout with Donald and tell him "Dude you won, now DO YOUR JOB." The R's are in pole position for the first time in a while and are on the path of squandering it. Trumps noise is a big reason why.

The ties to Russia, and Obama's wiretap - to me are just trivialities and time wasters. Both will unfortunately have to be investigated, and more likely than not we will find out that yeah, there was some of this or that, but no actionable activity came from it.  I ask myself when I read this stuff - what is the upside? I can't convince myself that there is an elaborate scheme between Russia and Trump's cabinet, the same I can't convince myself that there is anything behind the wiretaps other than standard political nosiness. I don't think any of the players involved are actually smart enough to pull these things off. Maybe I am naive.

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Weasels wake

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #804 on: March 06, 2017, 01:52:03 PM »
Nixon resigned over trying to cover-up wiretaps supposedly aimed at his opponent.

The New York Times have basically admitted that Obama has done the same thing, even before Trump was sworn in:
 
Intercepted Russian Communications Part of Inquiry Into Trump Associates
By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT, MATTHEW ROSENBERG, ADAM GOLDMAN and MATT APUZZOJAN. 19, 2017

WASHINGTON — American law enforcement and intelligence agencies are examining intercepted communications and financial transactions as part of a broad investigation into possible links between Russian officials and associates of President-elect Donald J. Trump, including his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, current and former senior American officials said.
The continuing counterintelligence investigation means that Mr. Trump will take the oath of office on Friday with his associates under investigation and after the intelligence agencies concluded that the Russian government had worked to help elect him. As president, Mr. Trump will oversee those agencies and have the authority to redirect or stop at least some of these efforts.
It is not clear whether the intercepted communications had anything to do with Mr. Trump’s campaign, or Mr. Trump himself. It is also unclear whether the inquiry has anything to do with an investigation into the hacking of the Democratic National Committee’s computers and other attempts to disrupt the elections in November.

For the rest, even though the article isn't as relevant as the admission of wiretapping.   
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/trump-russia-associates-investigation.html?_r=1

And if you need more, here's a list of Obama's wiretaps during his administration, he's obviously quite handy at wiretapping.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/03/draft-heres-the-complete-list-of-victims-from-obamas-many-wiretaps/

Nice try Obama, this might be like the super bowl all over again, and we're still at the beginning of the first half.
Go patriots!
It takes a quiver to do that.

freetobeme

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #805 on: March 06, 2017, 03:03:05 PM »
Trump was never an opponent of Obama in the sense of Nixon. Furthermore, no evidence of burgling, cover up or perjury has been presented. In this day and age with the executive powers given regarding intercepting citizens information I would be surprised if there is even smoke never mind fire regarding Obama conducting illegal activities. Im not suggesting he's above reproach but id put his smarts up against anyone in the ring of politics.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 03:12:34 PM by freetobeme »
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tautologies

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #806 on: March 06, 2017, 03:17:50 PM »
Nixon resigned over trying to cover-up wiretaps supposedly aimed at his opponent.

The New York Times have basically admitted that Obama has done the same thing, even before Trump was sworn in:
 
Intercepted Russian Communications Part of Inquiry Into Trump Associates
By MICHAEL S. SCHMIDT, MATTHEW ROSENBERG, ADAM GOLDMAN and MATT APUZZOJAN. 19, 2017

WASHINGTON — American law enforcement and intelligence agencies are examining intercepted communications and financial transactions as part of a broad investigation into possible links between Russian officials and associates of President-elect Donald J. Trump, including his former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, current and former senior American officials said.
The continuing counterintelligence investigation means that Mr. Trump will take the oath of office on Friday with his associates under investigation and after the intelligence agencies concluded that the Russian government had worked to help elect him. As president, Mr. Trump will oversee those agencies and have the authority to redirect or stop at least some of these efforts.
It is not clear whether the intercepted communications had anything to do with Mr. Trump’s campaign, or Mr. Trump himself. It is also unclear whether the inquiry has anything to do with an investigation into the hacking of the Democratic National Committee’s computers and other attempts to disrupt the elections in November.

For the rest, even though the article isn't as relevant as the admission of wiretapping.   
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/19/us/politics/trump-russia-associates-investigation.html?_r=1

And if you need more, here's a list of Obama's wiretaps during his administration, he's obviously quite handy at wiretapping.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/03/draft-heres-the-complete-list-of-victims-from-obamas-many-wiretaps/

Nice try Obama, this might be like the super bowl all over again, and we're still at the beginning of the first half.
Go patriots!

Are you kidding? I mean seriously do you not know how the system works?
There is a HUGE difference between wiretaps occurring during an administration and an administration ordering a wiretap. Obama simply cannot "order" wiretaps. To top it off you cite a blog on the reputable website thegatewaypundit.com???

Any secret wiretaps have to be pushed through the system by one of the intelligence agencies.
There is a FISA court and if they actually approved wiretaps, then there is already significant indication that something really really bad is going on....so at the end of the day, if the current administration is pushing this issue, they might just be painting themselves into a corner....or maybe this is just wishful thinking.

 

 

Tom

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #807 on: March 06, 2017, 03:28:03 PM »
the  US was tapping  Russians , like they   always  do, and discovered  the Trump  link. bigly difference 

Weasels wake

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #808 on: March 06, 2017, 03:34:00 PM »
This is getting fun now, of course Obama didn't have to "order wiretaps", his minions knew what to do if they were told by Obama off record or not.
Do you really think that everything in the government is strictly run by the book?  Ha!  I've been around far too long to know that isn't the case.

The bottom line is that both of the claims (Russians colluding with the GOP during the elections, and the Obama administration tapping Trump) are both sitting on the same foundation of reality, however weak or strong that may be.
Further investigation, which I am for, will hopefully provide some sunlight on both affairs, it will be very hard to investigate one w/o discovering the other, they are intertwined if they exist at all.
I'm just saying that it is best to be prepared for the results of the findings, or they (the dems) will call the entire thing off, then we will really know.

Art of the Deal.
It takes a quiver to do that.

tautologies

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #809 on: March 06, 2017, 04:53:26 PM »
This is getting fun now, of course Obama didn't have to "order wiretaps", his minions knew what to do if they were told by Obama off record or not.
Do you really think that everything in the government is strictly run by the book?  Ha!  I've been around far too long to know that isn't the case.

The bottom line is that both of the claims (Russians colluding with the GOP during the elections, and the Obama administration tapping Trump) are both sitting on the same foundation of reality, however weak or strong that may be.
Further investigation, which I am for, will hopefully provide some sunlight on both affairs, it will be very hard to investigate one w/o discovering the other, they are intertwined if they exist at all.
I'm just saying that it is best to be prepared for the results of the findings, or they (the dems) will call the entire thing off, then we will really know.

Art of the Deal.

No it is not sitting on the same foundation of reality. Not even close. Where one party has had repeated incidences of people in his cabinet getting their hand caught while in the cookie jar...and even lying about it under oath the other had several agencies coming out denying it, and there are no indications what so ever outside of some paranoid blog / random radio host rant that it is the case.

Now that said, if they did actually wiretap through FISA I would actually suggest them just publicizing what they have and both problems would find a resolution...one that Trump surely would claim was "fake news". It would cause harm to the US intelligence system but surely that would be a small prize to pay now that there is a leader in charge who trusts unqualified random radio rants over actual intelligence.




 


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