Author Topic: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]  (Read 344535 times)

Bean

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #705 on: March 01, 2017, 09:02:58 AM »
Yes Yugi, I have a working knowledge of the Danish income-tax structure.  I've even been to LEGOLAND! ;D 

With respect to the message, it speaks for itself...

Area 10

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #706 on: March 01, 2017, 09:54:41 AM »
The Danish have one of the highest rates of personal taxation in the world. But this also means that they have reduced inequalities between people. Which may be one reason why they regularly come out one of the top countries of the world in terms of the happiness of the population.

http://www.livescience.com/51325-happiest-countries-2014.html

So, reduced taxation does not necessarily lead to happiness.

I guess it depends whether you want to be miserable and far richer (or poorer) than your neighbour, or happy and more similar in wealth :) :)
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 09:59:21 AM by Area 10 »

Weasels wake

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #707 on: March 01, 2017, 10:13:02 AM »
Income redistribution so that everybody can rise to equal levels of mediocracy.
Jeremy Corbyn is a fan.

Jeremy Corbyn sings Communist anthem with activists who shared shocking anti-Semitic posts about the 'ugly Israeli species'
>The Labour leader sang the Red Flag with pro-Palestine campaigners in Bristol
>He was pictured embracing two activists who have shared anti-Semitic posts
>Mr Corbyn also attended an event run by a Muslim organisation which stated the Labour party was 'indebted to Jewish financiers'
>He was pictured chatting with a rapper who calls for violence against Israel
>MailOnline's revelations reapply pressure on beleaguered Labour leader who is facing rock bottom popularity ratings after by-election failure in Copeland


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4253926/Jeremy-Corbyn-NEW-anti-Semitism-row.html#ixzz4a6DAnT13
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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tautologies

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #708 on: March 01, 2017, 10:29:53 AM »
In a speech some papers hailed as almost presidential (how low is the bar???). He launch an even more extreme point of view. This is authoritarianism in the making. And immigrants are his targets..the public focal point when he makes drastic changes to benefit his cronies / goonies. He announced that he will launch VOICE, an agency to publish all crimes made by immigrants. If you are non-white immigrant you'll be in for a rough time. Look for an even steeper increase in hate crime.

 
The fact that this was not the headline instead of his reconciliatory election campaign nonsense show how bad the press core is. For the most part they have such a low bar that anything he says that can seem remotely human or as if he has a conscience makes them go...ohh maybe he can be a president.

Yeah oh and by the way..most of the claims he made is provably false. Because this is something they wrote up before and he was just reading they are outright and intentional lies.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-speech-voice-immigrants-crimes-list-agency-donald-joint-address-congress-a7604836.html

stoneaxe

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #709 on: March 01, 2017, 10:57:41 AM »
Your comments of the sky is falling are getting old. He won, he has four years to prove his agenda...two really. The republic has withstood worse. You'll just have to deal with the fact that the republicans have taken charge and now have the opportunity to have things their way. Your starting to sound like the far right claiming that Obama is helping his muslim brothers.  Are we going to keep this crappy thread live his whole administration with you posting links to every negative article you can find?

BTW...creek is right this conversation is hurting the zone as a place to enjoy. On that note....I'm done here...this stupid thing is putting me in a bad mood.
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Area 10

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #710 on: March 01, 2017, 11:09:21 AM »
Income redistribution so that everybody can rise to equal levels of mediocracy.
Jeremy Corbyn is a fan.
Denmark does very well in terms of most indicators such as productivity, education etc actually. I'd be interested to hear what you think the US is better at.

Across Europe there is a crisis for social democratic parties. Corbyn is one of the UK's indicators of this. Everyone knows that Corbyn is unelectable. But who else is there? The problem goes beyond individual personalities however. It is about confidence in a political philosophy. No-one is sure what to believe in any more, and in the absence of such a philosophy, anything can happen - and is happening, as Brexit and the rank failure of virtually every poll is showing. The rise of the far right across a Europe is largely because they are presenting an easy-to-digest philosophy: one of hate and fear. All bets are off. It will be interesting to see if the EU still exists by the time that the UK gets to leave it (at a cost of over £50 billion GBP!).

SUP Leave

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #711 on: March 01, 2017, 11:31:13 AM »
FWIW - I enjoy this thread, it doesn't put me in a bad mood. I have plenty of friends who differ with me politically. One thing I believe whole heatedly is the durability of the Constitution, and so I fear no despots or authoritarianism, or the extinction of American Culture due to a few bad leaders in a row. I also believe that the President is an elected officer, who works for me and you, and that politicians (by and large) are dumb and in place to further their own political lives. Very few of them do it as a temporary service to their country. That is why I am excited about this cabinet - many of them are taking a break from whatever their real job is to serve.


In a speech some papers hailed as almost presidential (how low is the bar???). He launch an even more extreme point of view. This is authoritarianism in the making. And immigrants are his targets..the public focal point when he makes drastic changes to benefit his cronies / goonies. He announced that he will launch VOICE, an agency to publish all crimes made by immigrants. If you are non-white immigrant you'll be in for a rough time. Look for an even steeper increase in hate crime.

 
The fact that this was not the headline instead of his reconciliatory election campaign nonsense show how bad the press core is. For the most part they have such a low bar that anything he says that can seem remotely human or as if he has a conscience makes them go...ohh maybe he can be a president.

Yeah oh and by the way..most of the claims he made is provably false. Because this is something they wrote up before and he was just reading they are outright and intentional lies.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-speech-voice-immigrants-crimes-list-agency-donald-joint-address-congress-a7604836.html

I was wrong about the speech - it was more unifying than I thought it would be and he didn't touch on the feud with the press. He stayed completely on the prompter -which was pretty different from what he had been doing. My post above regarding the tenor of the speech was wrong.

Tautologies - I read the article you posted and then I read the Ex Order to see what I took from it. https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/01/25/presidential-executive-order-enhancing-public-safety-interior-united


The VOICE program Ex Order has been out since January 25th I believe. So there has been plenty of time to lose our minds about this, but the press is just not up to digging anymore. The EO clearly states Aliens and Removable Aliens who:

" (a)  Have been convicted of any criminal offense;

(b)  Have been charged with any criminal offense, where such charge has not been resolved;

(c)  Have committed acts that constitute a chargeable criminal offense;

(d)  Have engaged in fraud or willful misrepresentation in connection with any official matter or application before a governmental agency;

(e)  Have abused any program related to receipt of public benefits;

(f)  Are subject to a final order of removal, but who have not complied with their legal obligation to depart the United States; or

(g)  In the judgment of an immigration officer, otherwise pose a risk to public safety or national security. "

 IMO - the VOICE list is how the Fed is going to attempt to force local jurisdictions to abandon "sanctuary" status. Basically, forcing state and local police to verify immigration status when making an arrest. There are clauses in the EO above that threaten to curtail funding for states not complying with the EO. I guess this is where you come out with Authoritarianism, correct? In that the Fed is trying to get the states to follow the existing immigration laws or lose funding? If the argument is that individual states should be able to have their own law/order on immigration - I could probably go for that, but then each state would need it's own border to be controlled. Wouldn't then each state become it's own country - and the fed wouldn't have to fund them anyway? The EO is just re-affirming that the states should follow the existing immigration laws, track immigration status of people committing crimes, and prioritizing who should get deported first.

If the states comply with the EO there could be an opportunity to get some good data from the VOICE list that could refute the necessity of the EO - what we will most likely find out is that the highest percentage of crimes are committed by Americans.

However, I am having a hard time figuring out how the deportation priority list above should make me upset. Someone please enlighten.
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Bean

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #712 on: March 01, 2017, 11:53:14 AM »
Your comments of the sky is falling are getting old. He won, he has four years to prove his agenda...two really. The republic has withstood worse. You'll just have to deal with the fact that the republicans have taken charge and now have the opportunity to have things their way. Your starting to sound like the far right claiming that Obama is helping his muslim brothers.  Are we going to keep this crappy thread live his whole administration with you posting links to every negative article you can find?

BTW...creek is right this conversation is hurting the zone as a place to enjoy. On that note....I'm done here...this stupid thing is putting me in a bad mood.

+1 - Last post for me on this tread, for now

tautologies

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #713 on: March 01, 2017, 12:34:57 PM »
Your comments of the sky is falling are getting old. He won, he has four years to prove his agenda...two really. The republic has withstood worse. You'll just have to deal with the fact that the republicans have taken charge and now have the opportunity to have things their way. Your starting to sound like the far right claiming that Obama is helping his muslim brothers.  Are we going to keep this crappy thread live his whole administration with you posting links to every negative article you can find?

BTW...creek is right this conversation is hurting the zone as a place to enjoy. On that note....I'm done here...this stupid thing is putting me in a bad mood.

No you are comparing apples and oranges. If you think most regime changes happens over night you are mistaken. Regime changes usually happens with boundaries being pushed a little bit at the time. I think it is important to have a stake in the ground. Obviously, I dislike Trump and many in his cabinet (I am pleasantly surprised at his choice for security cabinet led by McMasters...I am hoping he will be strong enough to push Bannon out because politics does not belong in that room).

So Stone, I am assuming you aren't particularly in favor of fundamental regime change(?). Where is your stake in the ground? When do you say enough?
Also, you say the republic has withstood worse? What are you referring to then?

:-)

Also..I am obviously not posting all the articles out there.


Tom

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #714 on: March 01, 2017, 01:44:08 PM »
Quote
However, I am having a hard time figuring out how the deportation priority list above should make me upset. Someone please enlighten.

(b)  Have been charged with any criminal offense, where such charge has not been resolved;
(c)  Have committed acts that constitute a chargeable criminal offense;
(g)  In the judgment of an immigration officer, otherwise pose a risk to public safety or national security.


This is purposefully vague so to give law enforcement unquestioned power to harass and punish anyone they feel like. You don't have to commit a criminal offence, only be charged with one. If Bubba the Texas deputy charges you with rape or jaywalking, you are now subject to deportation. Think it won't happen? Ask Muhammad Ali Jr.


Quote
Basically, forcing state and local police to verify immigration status when making an arrest.

SUP leave, do you carry a US passport or certified birth certificate with you at all times. Next time you're stopped for a broken taillight, would you be able to produce documents on the spot that proves you are in the US legally? Think it won't happen? Ask the passengers that were deplaning in NY from a domestic flight.

yugi

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #715 on: March 01, 2017, 02:28:45 PM »
....
 I also believe that the President is an elected officer, who works for me and you, and that politicians (by and large) are dumb and in place to further their own political lives. Very few of them do it as a temporary service to their country.
...


i like that point.

Some are not power crazed. Some do serve their country, and work for a better world.

   https://youtu.be/4GX6a2WEA1Q


« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 02:46:58 PM by yugi »

lucabrasi

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #716 on: March 01, 2017, 03:02:51 PM »
(g)  In the judgment of an immigration officer, otherwise pose a risk to public safety or national security. "

That's the one that maybe bothers me the most. Too much left open to too much........of ones own opinion. Not always the sharpest tool in the shed who will be making these decisions.
I will just leave that there.
I thought he sounded good last night. I got no issues with that. I was actually happy to see the news I watched last night (cbs for the most part) was coherent and realistic about the whole thing.
Who was the numbskull they called on for the rebuttal? Geez, shouldn't they at the very least had someone to at least comment on what was actually said and rebutt it (is that a word?) rather than some prepared something or another that sounded just like more of the same yakkity yak? Were they thinking all of Trumps supporters got that twang going on and this was for all them deplorables? "hey....let's get this southern guy out to show everyone......" I can't for the life of me remember any other previous rebuttal but I think I may remember that one next time this rolls around again.
Pence and his constant grin and Ryan and his ears were something but I always kind of liked that sour puss on Boehner's face there behind Obama. I think that's just the way he is tho.
Civil war? 1812? McCarthy? Bay of Pigs? We've been through a lot. We going to be fine.....not everyone will always like what is going on. Just the way it is.........has been, and will be. (i think anyways)
I still think him going as an independent next go around is something that could happen. We are not really set up for two parties in that the house and senate are republican or democrat. It has just evolved that way and they vote overwhelmingly partisan so it seems that way. With all he got on the plate..........who knows. Going to be an interesting few years to say the least.
Please, don't post all the articles.
 ;)

PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #717 on: March 01, 2017, 04:34:36 PM »
First of all, what country of any real size can take a lesson from Denmark? Five million people. Wow, what a challenge to govern.  London has 9 million. California has 38 million.  Really, nice job, who gives a shit. Rhode Island is nice too.


As for administrations we were lucky to survive, for all the talk of the golden 1000 days of the Kennedy Administration, I'd have to consider that a pretty destructive bunch. A bunch of Harvard and Yale guys demonstrating how tough they were. You can track a lot of bad beginnings back to that brief span of time. To whatever degree I really believe in M theory there have to be a lot of alternative universes where our planet is a cooling cinder. The notion of American intervention and regime change started there. Maybe Eisenhower started the ball rolling, but Kennedy gave it a big kick.

We also survived Bush II, who probably wasn't as bad a president as everyone claims, but if the press had been on his ass like they are on Trump, he would have looked like the devil and his band of demons.

Then there's President Obama. I think he inherited a perfect storm, but then he made a hash of almost everything. I think there is one simple measure of a president--can he reach across the aisle. Obama threw that away right from the start, with arrogance and heavy-handed policy that set the stage for Trump's cheap-shit executive orders. He was under the thumb of the unions. Obamacare is ridiculous. If Hillary had been elected the provisions triggering in 2017-18 would have made it either imperative for her to kill it or would have made her a one-term president.

We haven't had an effective president since Reagan. Bill Clinton was certainly capable of greatness but was far too interested in stealing the silver to actually achieve it.

Yes, the union will survive Trump, but it would be nice to get someone who actually had an idea of how to steer the boat next time. I do find many of Trump's cabinet choice to be interesting and refreshing. But someone needs to shove Bannon under a bus.

Bottom line, I think he's going to do a moderately shitty job, and then he's going to lose his majority in two years, and then he's just going to spin for two more. Then AMF, and we'll get some dipshit democrat that wants to undo everything in the first hundred days.

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SUP Leave

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #718 on: March 01, 2017, 04:45:52 PM »

This is purposefully vague so to give law enforcement unquestioned power to harass and punish anyone they feel like. You don't have to commit a criminal offence, only be charged with one. If Bubba the Texas deputy charges you with rape or jaywalking, you are now subject to deportation. Think it won't happen? Ask Muhammad Ali Jr.


Quote
Basically, forcing state and local police to verify immigration status when making an arrest.

SUP leave, do you carry a US passport or certified birth certificate with you at all times. Next time you're stopped for a broken taillight, would you be able to produce documents on the spot that proves you are in the US legally? Think it won't happen? Ask the passengers that were deplaning in NY from a domestic flight.

I'll agree with the purposefully vague verbiage. It is most definitely putting a lot of power in the hands of the police. There are bad cops out there, and there are also more cops who are ill-trained in these manners. We spent the last 8 years learning that police forces are systemically racist, so this is bad right? Trump's speech was extremely pro-police, which made the democrats really uncomfortable. I feel like Trump's focus is safety for the majority of Americans and he won, so that this the direction for a while.

It is hard to regulate or create legislature based on emotion or tragedy. While this law will certainly create tragedy for some families (especially if they have aliens who have been convicted of a crime in them), it is meant to prevent other tragedies caused by criminals. I feel like it comes from the right place, but may be a swipe too far (item g).

Question - say I get pulled over for my SUP flying off the top of my truck because I forgot to tie it down, and I can't produce my passport. Do I go to immigration jail, to be deported back to where I came from - Forks, WA? Or, do I get the opportunity to prove that I am in the country legally? I guess what I don't know, and what I should know is what is the process after an police official determines you may be here illegally? This is going to cause heartbreak for some families, but is the general idea going to keep Americans safer? Time will tell, it just started.

The domestic flight in New York had CBP guys checking IDs because they were looking for a specific person. No doubt, they could have let everyone off of the plane except people who fit the description of the perp, but that would have been termed racial profiling - even though it was garden variety police work. Would anyone here be greatly offended if they had to show their ID before getting off a plane? Especially if the cops were looking for someone in particular. It might be unsettling, but the end goal is safety - not being a pain in the ass. I would have probably bitched, but understood that the cops were just doing their jobs. For the next few years, I think we are going to get used to a little more scrutiny at airports and border crossings.



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Tom

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #719 on: March 01, 2017, 05:28:07 PM »


Quote
Question - say I get pulled over for my SUP flying off the top of my truck because I forgot to tie it down, and I can't produce my passport. Do I go to immigration jail, to be deported back to where I came from - Forks, WA? Or, do I get the opportunity to prove that I am in the country legally?

That may depend on how brown you are.

The son of the late Muhammad Ali was detained for two hours in Fort Lauderdale a few weeks back as he was returning from an event in Jamaica honoring Black History Month. He’s a US Citizen with a valid passport who travels frequently and never had difficulty entering the country prior to January 20.

He was repeatedly asked about his Muslim faith, according to a report in the Courier-Journal. Since asking those types of questions would amount to a religious test — one of the few things explicitly barred in the U.S. Constitution— the authorities have denied asking those types of questions.

A prominent French historian was wrongfully detained by Customs and Border Patrol agents for 10 hours after arriving in Houston from Paris to Houston on his way to attend an academic symposium at Texas A&M. Henry Russo, whose family fled Egypt in 1956 to escape the persecution of Jews, was admitted only after the university mobilized its lawyers.

“A best-selling Australian children’s book writer said she was traumatized and ‘sobbed like a baby’’ after being wrongfully detained and aggressively questioned by US border control officials in Los Angeles,” reports the Boston Globe. Mem Fox was also on her way to speak at a symposium and held after she was incorrectly charged with holding an improper visa.

Passengers arriving on a Delta Airlines domestic flight from San Francisco to JFK Airport were told by flight attendants they would have to show “their documents” to CBP agents waiting as they deplaned. Federal officials later confirmed they were acting on a tip — which didn’t pan out — about an immigrant facing deportation aboard the plane.

And those are just the cases making the news over the past weekend.

Maybe the sky is falling.

 


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