What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]

[stoneaxe]

Please taut it's not just a matter of disagreeing, they are doing everything they can to actively bring him down. They are no longer media they are activists....they deserve a good slap in the face. If you can't see that there is something seriously wrong with your perception....and judgement.

[Area 10]

Please stop insulting each other, guys.

Both viewpoints are IMO consistent with the evidence.

Trump IS acting in a way that is reminiscent of the early days of various fascist/demagogue leaders throughout history. So it's perfectly reasonable to be concerned about this.

And the media IS attacking Trump, and is having a real problem knowing how to deal with Trump, who seems to be actively picking fights with them at every opportunity rather than trying to keep them on his side as we are used to seeing.

Those who do not identify with Trump will fear change. Those who do will fear that change will be stifled.

Probably what both sides can agree on is that there is a big problem here, And that the situation is getting worse, not better. The only way of resolving it (non-violently) is going to be through dialogue and compromise. The chances of that happening decrease with every wild exaggerated outburst - from either side. As has been said on this forum several times now.

I would like to hear from Trump and his team as to what it is EXACTLY that is "fake" that is being reported by the media. I wish they'd spend a bit more time giving details, because while I do see bias in the media, I don't actually see deliberate false reporting: but then I don't know because I don't hear Trump's points, only his complaining. I can see that fear of hegemony through a "liberal elite" might indeed be reasonable for many people. For instance here is a news report of a British Muslim teacher who was accompanying his schoolchildren on a trip to the US but was removed from a flight without, apparently, explanation, playing to the fears of Trump critics:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/20/british-muslim-teacher-denied-entry-to-us-on-school-trip

On the face of it, this is shocking to liberals. But maybe there were other factors to this situation that we don't know about. The fact that Trump or his press team (or the US govt more broadly) do not give their perspective of these kinds of events forward, plays into the hands of his critics.

So, in the end, I don't know what to believe about events like these. And that is perhaps what bothers me most. It seems like you could put just about any interpretation on it that you'd like, and each narrative would be almost equally consistent with the known facts. "Post-truth" indeed.

[mrbig]

Access denied. Khalid Khateb, whose film on the Syrian Civil War has been nominated for an Oscar, has been denied
suddenly to attend by the Department of Homeland Security.

I feel this is just the beginning. Papers please..

Derogatory Information..

[Admin]

As a matter of fact I imagine that there will be very little roll back of regs

It is exactly that which is concerning.  Where there is a highly politicized issue Trump seems to enjoy being viewed as bold.  The Boldness itself seems to be the priority.  We have a ratings president.  That is why we see hurtful nonsense like the transgender protections removal this week.  I don't share your view that existing environmental regs are safe.   

[Area 10]

But WHY was Khatib denied entry?

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/khaled-khatib-oscars-white-helmet-muslim-ban-syria-a7598836.html

This is going to be a test for Trump. This could be a deliberate provocation aimed at getting lots of the "Hollywood elite" to bleat about him at the Oscars, and so reinforce the narrative he's presenting to his supporters about being an outsider who is gonna shake up the liberal elite who are persecuting ordinary folk with political correctness. Or maybe there was just something odd with Khatib's passport. Or maybe Homeland Security fear for Khatib's own well-being if he comes to the US. Or maybe it's one of a thousand other possible explanations. We just don't know at this stage. However what we do know is that if this event has occurred for good reason rather than being a political game, we should get to hear a decent explanation. No explanation at all would be a very bad sign.

[stoneaxe]

[mrbig]

A10,

The facts (and who knows the real truth in these troubled times) that I believe are:

1. He applied for a visa which was approved.

2. Turkey changed their mind.

3. Homeland Security used the Derogatory Information clause (borrowed from U S Military security clearance protocols  OBTW) to cancel visa.

Will not speculate on Turkish motivation or US at this time..

[PonoBill]

Once again I find myself in complete agreement with A10. I'm starting to worry about myself.

[Area 10]

Thanks mrbig. So it might not be anything to do with Trump directly. Maybe. But I'm sure the Oscar speeches being written now won't say entertain that possibility.

There was a very thought-provoking documentary aired on terrestrial TV this week in the UK by Trevor Phillips:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-4251306/Political-correctness-gone-mad-writes-TREVOR-PHILLIPS.html

He was suggesting that the reactionary responses by well-meaning people were creating an atmosphere which promotes division and alienation.

I lived and worked for many years in some of the most deprived areas in Europe (and in the worst accommodation in those areas), and I have also lived and worked in some of the most privileged areas too. And these experiences taught me that the difference in perspective on the same events you get, according to your current environment and circumstances, is profound. What seems a totally unreasonable attitude soon seems surprisingly plausible once you've spent some time in another person' shoes.

[Area 10]

Once again I find myself in complete agreement with A10. I'm starting to worry about myself.

You and me both, then

[Weasels wake]

So if this isn't worrying you there is something severely wrong with your judgement. Banning legitimate media based on to extent they agree wit has  it not is nothing short of facist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/24/white-house-blocks-cnn-new-york-times-from-press-briefing-hours-after-trump-slams-media/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.d167ecb98470

"Fascist"?  You too?  SMH.

[mrbig]

And for a really good time Google White Helmet Film..

The diversity and extreme nature of the responses were astounding to say the least..

Does anybody really know what time it is? Old CTA tune before they rebranded themselves Chicago..

 

[tautologies]

So American Action forum did an estimate of how much it will cost to get rid of the "illegals". It is painfully obvious and so incredibly stupid to be focusing on this harmful nonsense. Before you dismiss this as fake news or some other ridiculous nonsense...the leader behind this center-right think tank is Led by Douglas Holtz-Eakin, former Director of the Congressional Budget Office, AAF and professor of economics.

"We estimate that the federal government would have to spend $400 billion to $600 billion over 20 years to accomplish these objectives. $100 billion to $300 billion would be spent on removing the entire current undocumented immigrant population from the United States. Moreover, an additional $315 billion would be needed to keep new immigrants from unlawfully living in the country.

Not only would it cost the taxpayer budget dollars, it would also greatly burden the economy. The labor force would shrink by 6.4 percent and, as a result, in 20 years the U.S. GDP would be almost 6 percent lower than it would be without fully enforcing current law. This equates to 11 million workers and $1.6 trillion lost."

These clowns needs to leave country business to professions and get back to their reality shows.

https://www.americanactionforum.org/research/the-budgetary-and-economic-costs-of-addressing-unauthorized-immigration-alt/

[tautologies]

Please taut it's not just a matter of disagreeing, they are doing everything they can to actively bring him down. They are no longer media they are activists....they deserve a good slap in the face. If you can't see that there is something seriously wrong with your perception....and judgement.

This is nonsense. You have a president the uses casual insults as his go to communication tool..that questions basic and fundamental building blocks of a healthy democracy while not knowing basic governing principles then plays it up if someone answers. If you dish it, you gotta take it.

This is a president that truly means what ever he says is the truth (as also said by his people) regardless of what can be proven...he demands that he defines reality. I mean there are so many things he says that are easily falsified...and when the press points it out, it is some kind of an attack on him? Of course that will not give him any favors...the few real journalists at fox agrees entirely with this, and I bet you that they will not try to bring him down because they hate him...but because it is the job of a journalist to uncover information. This is why we have the 4th estate and why they are an important part of a healthy democracy.

A10. It isn't two sides to the same coin. While I understand what you are saying, and I can understand how it can be interpreted that way I fundamentally disagree. I am not against all GOP...DEMS isn't my team so to speak...as much as I think the press quality has been declining that past 20 years (still some good ones), I think now they are finally beginning to dig.

[PonoBill]

The illegals "problem" doesn't exist. Ten years from now we will be paying these same people to come here.