What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]

[lucabrasi]

Hola Yugi.

Interesting views on how China is handling world stage events.
   http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-39061702
Smart.

I scanned through it..twice here and there. Yeah....I kinda gather that from the article.......China is playing it smart.

I gather it may be hard for those within the US (watching a certain flavor of news stream) to realise the degraded image America is now forging for itself.

Which flavor would this be? That is pretty much all I see from our media........a degraded image or ourself. A shitshow. Huh, how about that. Fits right in.
This appears to be a little bit more........subtle, perhaps trying to be coy...but a bit of the same flavor. Maybe not.
I don't think I could say that Trump is helping himself or ourselves as a whole in presenting a great image of our country but I do think I can say that the flavor of our news stream is really outdoing itself in forging a new image of our country. I have no clue how one could even imagine our news stream is presenting us in a favorable light.
Are there really people out there who would only follow Trumps twitter as their source of news? (ok, don't answer that one).
This posted earlier kinda fits right in there with that tho.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2017/0222/In-age-of-Trump-apocalyptic-rhetoric-becomes-mainstream

No way do I drink tap water in the US, at least where I go. I now so distrust “official” US messages that I think I wouldn’t dare drink tapwater anywhere in the US. Just out of distrust.

I’m the kind of guy the last time I was in India I drank the tap water there from day 1 to the end. Never would I dare in the USA.

What are "official" US messages? Trumps twitter? Something from a local town or county? You would have drank our water last summer in places but not now? Is that what you are saying? You trusted our "official" US messages before last month?

I get your passion but it's yet to be seen what's going to happen with all this new regulation or turning back some of them. The sky isn't falling (at least not yet). I don't know enough about the federal vs. state land deal to really comment on it but in a general sense I not so sure that's a bad idea for lots of land I look around and see. I am sure lots of people on the coast would rather their state keeps running stuff rather than the feds jumping in and saying how it should be. Of course it matters what the states intend to do with land they take over but from everywhere you look it sure appears from what you read or watch is that all the states want to do is ruin it. I really don't think that's the case. Has anyone really looked at just how stuff would change? If you got bitchin' stuff that spreads out over a few thousand acres........protect a few hundred thousand acres maybe and not a few million? I don't know but I really don't think anything out there suggests we are going to see Lake Erie on fire again or dump shit everywhere. Am I missing something?

One thing I expect Trump to do is create a whole new sector of activists.

You think?

Anyone notice that a couple weeks ago there was absolutely nothing you could find positive about Betsy DeVos? Suddenly she is a saint and a hero. Lots of glowing stuff about her out there now. I kind of think she is the same person she was last month. I sure wish I could change that fast..........or at all.

If I took you out of context and chopped all that up too much to make it seem like something different that was not my intention.
 i can say he has really done some things that have pissed me off....media coverage or not but the shit stream from the media is just awful

[SUP Leave]

Here is a quote from Pruitt's first speech to the EPA -

"Regulations ought to make things regular,” Pruitt said. “Regulations exist to give certainty to those they regulate. Those we regulate ought to know what’s expected of them so they can place and allocate resources to comply."

This is exactly what American Businesses have been saying for a long time. "We don't mind the regulations, we just need to know what they are so we can plan for them." I have heard this from multiple industrial clients. I should note that most of the work I do for these industrial clients is helping with upgrades to air scrubbers, wastewater systems, etc due to new environmental regulations.

Does Pruitt's appointment mean the end of clean water and air? The speech did not mention protecting the environment, but that the EPA needed to exist along with industry. Certainly a shift from the prior administration! Personally, I highly doubt any of the regulations I work with day to day will be affected at all. As a matter of fact I imagine that there will be very little roll back of regs, but the creation of new ones will definitely slow down. That is what businesses have been asking for. Does this scare anyone? Do you feel that more environmental regulations are needed from the Fed? Of course EPA regulators/staff are freaking out - their jobs may be at risk. I have heard a highly offensive saying in my industry "Those who cant do - teach, those who cant teach - research, and those who cant research - regulate." But really, there is no other job with less exposure than that of a regulator. It is a job that is almost impossible to be wrong - until now?

----- end environmental part ----

The thing that bothers me about politics and social media right now is that so few people have the ability to believe that 2 things can be true at the same time. There are many people out there who firmly believe that everything this administration does is bad, and an outrage - because of who did it. Trump does and says a ton of stupid shit, but occasionally he does something good (IMO). I hate the idea of a massive infrastructure bill - that is not a conservative policy in any way, shape or form, but may be the first piece of significant work that the new admin gets done. They have talked a lot about taxes, Obamacare, immigration - but the actual orders and actions have really not done anything at all (except pander to the (R) base and cause outrage from the left).

Tribalism is getting old, people who I like personally post things on the internet that makes me think less of them, and that bothers me. I know them to be good-hearted folks who are good company, but their political ideas rub me the wrong way. With every news story so fatalistic, it takes a long time to parse out the actual effect of the news item. Does anyone ever think "I  want to actually see the policy before I see if it is bad or not?" Or is it always going to be someone with an (R) or (D) next to their name said it, it has to be bad.

[SlatchJim]

I doubt that I have agreed with a post more that yours right here SUP Leave. Well said and concise.

It is a common belief among regulators that they are the holy paladins of the environment, and without them and their sage guidance, the world would crumble. This is particularly true of our (my company's) two state EPA enforcement branch regulators who fined the owner of our permitted treatment storage and disposal facility because we weren't permitted to handle aerosol cans.  The fact that YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE A PERMIT to accept aerosol cans probably hadn't sunk in yet.  When added to the fine for allowing oil and water to separate (because according to the state, they supercede the laws of physics), I'm convinced that what we have is a power mad and desparate agency fining industries for the sole purpose of income generation into that agency.  We actually had to file suit so that the waste streams we're permitted to accept could be subject to gravity (I can't make this stuff up).

I went into environmental remediation because I grew up in the smoggiest place in the country (at the time) and my mom did a great job of convincing me that litter is a sin against your own house. It's a good line of work with no small amount of satisfaction for leaving things better than they were.  But pollution cleanup isn't only the venue for tree huggers and leftists, nor is it the sole playground for large greedy corporations. Life isn't all or nothing, black and white, full stop conservative or "progressive." You can't make things better without the money to do so, and sensible guidance and regulation is required to do things right.

Like you SUP Leave, I have friends and family that post all or nothing posts in both directions, and I just don't have the time to sit down with each of them and discuss how they came to those views.  It seems the country as a whole needs a good slap in the face to wake up, understand that we should be having a discussion and not an arguement. It's not about "who's right and yells the loudest, but what's right and how to get it done. Calm down America, take the time to listen and stop being so dogmatic and useless.

[PonoBill]

Good and thoughtful posts guys, thanks for taking the time.

China playing it smart could be a useful set of lessons for America, and/or the rest of the world.

[lucabrasi]

Make paddleboarding great again!

hahahahahaha...oh my. never saw that before. nice.

[mrbig]

Thanks for some thoughtful posts..

[ruralwaters]

Some interesting numbers on the economic impact in California if ACA were repealed. 

http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/californias-projected-economic-losses-under-aca-repeal/

[pdxmike]

I doubt that I have agreed with a post more that yours right here SUP Leave. Well said and concise.

It is a common belief among regulators that they are the holy paladins of the environment, and without them and their sage guidance, the world would crumble. This is particularly true of our (my company's) two state EPA enforcement branch regulators who fined the owner of our permitted treatment storage and disposal facility because we weren't permitted to handle aerosol cans.  The fact that YOU ARE NOT REQUIRED TO HAVE A PERMIT to accept aerosol cans probably hadn't sunk in yet.  When added to the fine for allowing oil and water to separate (because according to the state, they supercede the laws of physics), I'm convinced that what we have is a power mad and desparate agency fining industries for the sole purpose of income generation into that agency.  We actually had to file suit so that the waste streams we're permitted to accept could be subject to gravity (I can't make this stuff up).

I went into environmental remediation because I grew up in the smoggiest place in the country (at the time) and my mom did a great job of convincing me that litter is a sin against your own house. It's a good line of work with no small amount of satisfaction for leaving things better than they were.  But pollution cleanup isn't only the venue for tree huggers and leftists, nor is it the sole playground for large greedy corporations. Life isn't all or nothing, black and white, full stop conservative or "progressive." You can't make things better without the money to do so, and sensible guidance and regulation is required to do things right.

Like you SUP Leave, I have friends and family that post all or nothing posts in both directions, and I just don't have the time to sit down with each of them and discuss how they came to those views.  It seems the country as a whole needs a good slap in the face to wake up, understand that we should be having a discussion and not an arguement. It's not about "who's right and yells the loudest, but what's right and how to get it done. Calm down America, take the time to listen and stop being so dogmatic and useless.

Can you tell us what party you're in so we know whether to agree with this or not?

[SlatchJim]

Clever ruse PDX 

[stoneaxe]

Felt like I was reading what I meant to say...... . Great posts.

[stoneaxe]

You won't drink the tapwater in the US but you will in India? ....that tells me all I need to know of your argument.

You spent a lot of time on the ground in India lately?

No but i design water treatment plants for a living and have for the last 30 years and know well the level of sophistication of US facilities vs indian....the comment is ludicrous....as is yours.

[yugi]

interesting persectives, thanks

You won't drink the tapwater in the US but you will in India? ....that tells me all I need to know of your argument.

I think the notion of willingly drinking tap water in India but not at all in the U.S. is over the top…

I know it is ludicrous. I put it in there to stir things up. While true it isn’t really a fair statement as it isn’t Apples Vs Apples. I was in the mountains up in kashmir and in the US I’m more in the big cities.

I do mostly believe what locals tell me. I was being facetious regarding both the shocking new disrespect for the truth the White House is showing and the mine water pollution problem that happened a couple of years ago in Colorado where the EPA failed to warn the population promptly despite being aware of the problem.

Yugi, can you explain Cap and Trade as it applies to pollution credits to me?

Oh shit. Can anyone explain that clearly?

[johnysmoke]

You won't drink the tapwater in the US but you will in India? ....that tells me all I need to know of your argument.

You spent a lot of time on the ground in India lately?

No but i design water treatment plants for a living and have for the last 30 years and know well the level of sophistication of US facilities vs indian....the comment is ludicrous....as is yours.

Congrats man, didn't know that, sounds like a cool gig. You must have dealt with a lot of shit over the years, or if you're on the other end, I hope you guys are doing a good job, because I'm too cheap to buy bottled water.

I found this good reading on the background US/Russian hacking.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/03/06/trump-putin-and-the-new-cold-war

[johnysmoke]

Morning lefties.
I sure am glad you have this thread to pontificate on.... cuz you got nothing else.
No President
No Congress
No Senate
Almost No Governors
Bleeding seats in every state. It must be frustrating to be so unappreciated all the time.

ok, ok.... I'll say it for you, so you don't have to trouble yourselves
STFU creek, you “racist, Nazi, alt-right, misogynist, sexist, Islamophobe, xenophobe, deplorable climate-denier, uneducated, angry white man, drone cheerleader”

Enjoy your day scouring the interweb for more nasty things to say about the moron supporters of DT.

Congratulations man! But maybe next time please elect someone who can read? Thanks!

[tautologies]

So if this isn't worrying you there is something severely wrong with your judgement. Banning legitimate media based on to extent they agree wit has  it not is nothing short of facist.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/02/24/white-house-blocks-cnn-new-york-times-from-press-briefing-hours-after-trump-slams-media/?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.d167ecb98470