Author Topic: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]  (Read 344527 times)

tautologies

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #585 on: February 21, 2017, 12:32:18 AM »


Ok fine we agree. Heh. Seriously though agree 100% on the last paragraph. The only way we can actually change some of those ote.s is to get elected ourselves.

Unfortunately I have little faith that many of theverything elected officials would vote for term limit's. One thing they could do would be to remove much of the money from politics. Make political ads illegal. Or at least negative ads.

stoneaxe

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #586 on: February 21, 2017, 05:50:05 AM »
Here you go guys...maybe this will make you feel better. Fake news, fake reality, http://www.hillarybeattrump.org/
Bob

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SeldomScene

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #587 on: February 21, 2017, 02:25:53 PM »
One thing about the electoral system is that, by allowing someone with fewer popular votes to win, it almost guarantees protests. After all, even if the protests aren't about the candidate with fewer votes winning, the system has created a situation where most voters chose someone else, meaning lots of potential protesters, and lots of people unhappy with what the president is doing, since most people voted for another candidate with another platform.  Without the electoral system, most voters would have voted for the winner, so most would be happier with what the winner was doing.


I'm not arguing for or against the electoral college, or saying that's a main reason for the protests or the number of protesters, but it's at least a contributing factor. And there's at least the potential for a election where a lot more than 3 or 4 million people voted for the loser.

I don't recall any Republicans protesting when Bill Clinton was elected with 43 per cent of the popular vote.  Demanding a runoff, for example.  In fact, I don't remember Republicans protesting anything.  Too busy working, I guess.

The whole thing about Trump and his rallies, as well as his orders for the border "wall", deportations, etc., are all for one reason only.  He feels it necessary to do what he said he would do if elected.  The rallies take him straight to those people who elected him, bypassing the media.  He may be nutty, but he is keeping his word.
I'm not sure why anyone would have protested Bill Clinton being elected with 43% of the popular vote, since he easily defeated Bush Sr., who had only 37% of the vote.  So that example is the opposite of what happened this year, and only relevant if you're trying to argue that people don't protest if their candidate gets convincingly beaten in the popular vote.


Also, the "too busy working" spiel--with the implication that this year's anti-Trump protests were populated with people who don't work hard--is tiresome.  This is a list of 100% of people who I know (not cherry-picking to make my point) that I know were at the protests:
--1 college honors student who works while in school
--1 graduate medical student who works while in school
--3 architects
--1 urban planner
--1 retired woman (90 years old, don't know her career, but she grew up working on a farm)
--1 senior Intel engineer
--1 medical researcher/inventor/professor/mathematician with at least one PhD
--1 mathematician (PhD) who runs a charitable trust
--1 elementary school teacher
--1 CFO at a large manufacturing company
--1 National Guardsman home between deployments









oh, that BJ.  the one in the Oval Office, by a subordinate, that he lied about under oath.

Well a BJ isn't illegal...lying is. However, Trump has been caught in so many lies this far and he has obvious conflicts of interest in his business dealings...which is illegal. His ties to Russia should be investigated His insane attacks on the press, judicial system and a whole slew of other factors should easily be enough for even his supports to question WTF he is doing. The GOP should be preparing an impeachment....because trump is a con-man.

Wow, you hang with an impressive crowd. 

SeldomScene

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #588 on: February 21, 2017, 04:35:02 PM »
I don't think the reason why people stay at home is because the electoral system. I think voters feels disenfranchised because they feel almost equally fubared regardless of who is chosen. Now if you look at election patterns in the US incumbents will just not turn out...they are happy with status quo, and can't get into their mind that shit changes if your preferred politicians aren't elected...

Trump won the election much because Koch brothers and Rove has been so incredibly successful in gerrymandering. The weird part is that Rove has been explicit about it: "He who controls redistricting can control Congress" and democrats just stood there like idiots watching him and Koch money change the map.

They have been extremely efficient and well organized.
Then Trump came along and just stole the election from Rove and the GOP.

But saying people shouldn't demonstates is simply ludicrous because it is the right of the people (for the time beeing) to state their minds. Write and call the policitians and dempnstrate. It will help.

Actually, I personally know several people here in Washington who don't vote, because so many liberals live in one metro area the rest of the voters don't matter.  It's a microcosm of why the Electoral College exists.  No other reason but that. 

You could blame that guy Gerry Mandering, which has been utilized by both parties for 200 years, for the failures of the Democrat Party.  It is true that that nut Dennis Kucinich was gerrymandered right out if office when his district was abolished due to population loss in Ohio, but few Dems would even mourn him.  Gerrymandering didn't result in the majorities Republicans enjoy in US politics, at every level.  White House, House, Senate, Governors, etc.  And, if the Dems would win the House, they could Gerrymander themselves right back into majority.  Just get that famously effective Congresswoman Nancy Pelosi,  representing the most liberal out of touch with reality district in America, to engineer the comeback.  Wait, she already engineered the demise of the party, never mind.


pdxmike

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #589 on: February 21, 2017, 05:15:18 PM »
One thing about the electoral system is that, by allowing someone with fewer popular votes to win, it almost guarantees protests. After all, even if the protests aren't about the candidate with fewer votes winning, the system has created a situation where most voters chose someone else, meaning lots of potential protesters, and lots of people unhappy with what the president is doing, since most people voted for another candidate with another platform.  Without the electoral system, most voters would have voted for the winner, so most would be happier with what the winner was doing.


I'm not arguing for or against the electoral college, or saying that's a main reason for the protests or the number of protesters, but it's at least a contributing factor. And there's at least the potential for a election where a lot more than 3 or 4 million people voted for the loser.

I don't recall any Republicans protesting when Bill Clinton was elected with 43 per cent of the popular vote.  Demanding a runoff, for example.  In fact, I don't remember Republicans protesting anything.  Too busy working, I guess.

The whole thing about Trump and his rallies, as well as his orders for the border "wall", deportations, etc., are all for one reason only.  He feels it necessary to do what he said he would do if elected.  The rallies take him straight to those people who elected him, bypassing the media.  He may be nutty, but he is keeping his word.
I'm not sure why anyone would have protested Bill Clinton being elected with 43% of the popular vote, since he easily defeated Bush Sr., who had only 37% of the vote.  So that example is the opposite of what happened this year, and only relevant if you're trying to argue that people don't protest if their candidate gets convincingly beaten in the popular vote.


Also, the "too busy working" spiel--with the implication that this year's anti-Trump protests were populated with people who don't work hard--is tiresome.  This is a list of 100% of people who I know (not cherry-picking to make my point) that I know were at the protests:
--1 college honors student who works while in school
--1 graduate medical student who works while in school
--3 architects
--1 urban planner
--1 retired woman (90 years old, don't know her career, but she grew up working on a farm)
--1 senior Intel engineer
--1 medical researcher/inventor/professor/mathematician with at least one PhD
--1 mathematician (PhD) who runs a charitable trust
--1 elementary school teacher
--1 CFO at a large manufacturing company
--1 National Guardsman home between deployments









oh, that BJ.  the one in the Oval Office, by a subordinate, that he lied about under oath.

Well a BJ isn't illegal...lying is. However, Trump has been caught in so many lies this far and he has obvious conflicts of interest in his business dealings...which is illegal. His ties to Russia should be investigated His insane attacks on the press, judicial system and a whole slew of other factors should easily be enough for even his supports to question WTF he is doing. The GOP should be preparing an impeachment....because trump is a con-man.

Wow, you hang with an impressive crowd.
Main point is that these people work as hard as any of the people who are "too busy working" to protest. 


Also, I'd guess 100% of the people I know who protested vote.  Yet the very first tweet from Trump after the Women's March protests was "Why didn't these people vote?"  His knee-jerk reaction to anything or anyone he doesn't like is to dismiss them personally--non-voters, fake newswriters, ugly, dumb...I don't remember any other president consistently responding to criticism that way.

PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #590 on: February 21, 2017, 05:50:29 PM »
I don't remember them responding at all. If I were advising him, or better yet, controlling him, he'd say very little. He doesn't seem to understand, or at least value, the concept of plausible deniability--separating himself from anything unseemly. Or he just doesn't care.

Seldom, the term actually comes from Eldridge Gerry, a Mass Governer plus the end of Salamander, for the salamander-shaped district he supposedly shaped to concentrate votes.

From all accounts he was a dick too, but he's safely dead.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

SeldomScene

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #591 on: February 21, 2017, 07:07:09 PM »
I don't remember them responding at all. If I were advising him, or better yet, controlling him, he'd say very little. He doesn't seem to understand, or at least value, the concept of plausible deniability--separating himself from anything unseemly. Or he just doesn't care.

Seldom, the term actually comes from Eldridge Gerry, a Mass Governer plus the end of Salamander, for the salamander-shaped district he supposedly shaped to concentrate votes.

From all accounts he was a dick too, but he's safely dead.

Are you serious?  Thought it would be humorously obvious to all when I used Gerry Mander.  Esp when I used gerrymander later in my post.  And I didn't even have to google the term like some.  Learnt it in middle school/high school/college/grad school.  USC baby.  Mander on ....

stoneaxe

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #592 on: February 21, 2017, 08:06:38 PM »
Barney Frank was one of the worst, or should that be best, examples of it in recent times......the original Eldridge Gerry salamander (looks more like bird in this)..... and Bahney Fwank's creative line drawing.


« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 08:11:16 PM by stoneaxe »
Bob

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PonoBill

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #593 on: February 21, 2017, 10:07:32 PM »
I don't remember them responding at all. If I were advising him, or better yet, controlling him, he'd say very little. He doesn't seem to understand, or at least value, the concept of plausible deniability--separating himself from anything unseemly. Or he just doesn't care.

Seldom, the term actually comes from Eldridge Gerry, a Mass Governer plus the end of Salamander, for the salamander-shaped district he supposedly shaped to concentrate votes.

From all accounts he was a dick too, but he's safely dead.

Are you serious?  Thought it would be humorously obvious to all when I used Gerry Mander.  Esp when I used gerrymander later in my post.  And I didn't even have to google the term like some.  Learnt it in middle school/high school/college/grad school.  USC baby.  Mander on ....

Sorry, my iron is busted. Probably got overused with all this shit. I didn't need to google it either, but I did to get the spelling right. Good thing, I thought his name was Ethan for some reason.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.


Area 10

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yugi

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #596 on: February 22, 2017, 04:46:59 AM »
Amnesty International releases its Annual Report for 2016 to 2017.

   https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/02/amnesty-international-annual-report-201617/

“2016 was the year when the cynical use of ‘us vs them’ narratives of blame, hate and fear took on a global prominence to a level not seen since the 1930s. Too many politicians are answering legitimate economic and security fears with a poisonous and divisive manipulation of identity politics in an attempt to win votes,” said Salil Shetty, Secretary General of Amnesty International.

“Divisive fear-mongering has become a dangerous force in world affairs. Whether it is Trump, Orban, Erdoğan or Duterte, more and more politicians calling themselves anti-establishment are wielding a toxic agenda that hounds, scapegoats and dehumanizes entire groups of people.

“Today’s politics of demonization shamelessly peddles a dangerous idea that some people are less human than others, stripping away the humanity of entire groups of people. This threatens to unleash the darkest aspects of human nature.”





Bean

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #597 on: February 22, 2017, 05:58:26 AM »
The problem with the AI report is that it is pure opinion.  It speaks about a specific change "the cynical use of ‘us vs them’ narratives of blame, hate and fear took on a global prominence to a level not seen since the 1930s", yet there is no significant historical perspective, only net-opinion.

yugi

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #598 on: February 22, 2017, 06:34:40 AM »
^ wow

Amnesty International annual report is "pure opinion"? "only net-opinion"?

Just wow.

I’m sensing your reaction is a sign of things to come. Which is what really worries me.

So it begins. And so ends logical intelligent discussion.

Bean

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Re: What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]
« Reply #599 on: February 22, 2017, 06:48:40 AM »
Yugi, tell me how the AI report supports the shift from 1930 to present. 

 


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