What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]

[PonoBill]

I don't think Trump needs a war to get a second term. I thought this would be a one term president at most, and I expected the mid terms to cripple him. But the things he is doing make sense to more than just his base. And the coalition building that's unreported in the press will build support even more. He's working on term two and the midterms right now. I didn't expect that.

My comments about Islam are simply reactions to others statements.  Islam spread the same way Christianity did--by being intolerant of other religious beliefs and using force. That intolerance remains today, both externally and internally. Wahhabism is certainly an extreme and hypocritical sect--you don't need to live in Geneva to see the burkas come off and the Gucci go on. But Sunni jihad is paid for with wahhabi money and dances to their tune.

I think it's critical to the character of America to accept refugees and to make a place for them. A isolated America transforms from a dream to an oppressor. I'm very much in favor of globalism, always have been.  But what I think has nothing to do with what I see unfolding. It definitely is a shit show, but the show is a distraction.

[freetobeme]

I think it's critical to the character of America to accept refugees and to make a place for them. A isolated America transforms from a dream to an oppressor. I'm very much in favor of globalism, always have been.  But what I think has nothing to do with what I see unfolding. It definitely is a shit show, but the show is a distraction.

Great statement. Whats your take, beyond coalition building, on what the shit show is attempting to distract the American public from?

[PonoBill]

I don't think Trump is creating the distraction with full intent. I think he's doing exactly what he said he'd do to firm up his base and perhaps because he believes it's important. Reading mainstream media you'd think everyone in America is outraged by the immigration ban. Do you think that's so? What percentage of Americans would you guess would consider this action to be wrong? I don't know anyone that doesn't see the action as logical to some degree. Heavy handed perhaps, but not an irrational first step. My guess is that no more than 30 percent thinks it's just categorically wrong. Probably less.  Even people who are traditionally liberal are concerned about importing terrorism and dealing with the cultural upheavals of refugee populations.

I think Europe is going to have massive problems with their minimally vetted refugee populations--and very soon. Those issues will make Trump's action appear even more appropriate. The media completely ignores the logic of the actions, which is silly. The public understands that people involved in attacks have travelled back to "terror countries" for training. Failing to note that rationale leaves a disconnect between what is reported and what people believe.

What about the efforts to restore manufacturing to America? What percentage think shooting NAFTA and the TPP is bad. What percentage think something like that would happen with Democratic leadership.

If Trumps "Wall" rolls back to a much more secure border, more sophisticated monitoring and even more border patrol agents, what percentage of Americans will think it's. bad thing?

He's building popular support far beyond his base, and that worries me. I really wanted to see him gone and certainly marginalized after disastrous midterms. But I don't think that's going to happen. I think the unions are going to support him. I think people are going to see progress on a narrow set of issues and decide he is effective and working in their interest. And I think the end result is an isolated America and a less safe world.

[johnysmoke]

Don't forget what these people are running from, it was a draught-starvation type situation exacerbated by poor leadership. Anyone deprived of food and clean water and crammed together in cities are going to go looney trying to get what they need, be it to Mohammed or Christ, but strangley enough never Buddha. I think these people are just easy targets for an "us-them" type situation, same as with the Jews in WW2 Germany. It's a shell game to keep us off kilter and divided, the more we fight with each other, the easier it is to make huge changes whatever they may be. Unless I am mistaken, currently there are no military/generals on the NSC, just Bannon running shotgun to Trump, and Trump's close circle running the rest of the show.

[SUP Sports ®]

Everyone on this planet should be praying to whatever big "G" or little "g" God/god(s) that they believe in, that we all won't get to watch the brewing pissing match between Trump and Kim Jong Un unfold and escalate, as our relations with China and other countries around the globe grow colder...

We dodged a bullet with JFK and Bay of Pigs...this scenario could have a different outcome...and, I don't think that wall is designed to keep long range missiles out....holy shmoly...;-)

http://www.dw.com/en/north-korea-restarts-nuclear-reactor-used-to-fuel-weapons-program/a-37311109

[PonoBill]

Yup.  One of the many reasons that I'm in favor of globalism. Alignment of interests.

That nose cone looks like my shaping efforts.

I can't imagine what the radiological controls are inside that building. Probably a death sentance to work in there.

[SUP Leave]

He's building popular support far beyond his base, and that worries me. I really wanted to see him gone and certainly marginalized after disastrous midterms. But I don't think that's going to happen. I think the unions are going to support him. I think people are going to see progress on a narrow set of issues and decide he is effective and working in their interest. And I think the end result is an isolated America and a less safe world.

That's a great post. Trump meeting with and getting praise from the unions is outright theft of a voter base. The left needs to re-group and really pin down what they are trying to achieve. The media isn't helping the left's cause. Blowing each protest and march out of proportion, in an effort to make the viewer feel that they should feel that way too. The problem is the tactic has stopped working. The left needs to start to show some real talent in leadership, and stop with the identity politics. Is there anyone in the D party that can identify what is actually happening and make a difference? It seems they all just want to grandstand, while their voter base silently slides to Trump.

Humans by nature are selfish. Trump understands and is using his populism approach to gain a voter base much faster than anyone thought he would. I'm a (fiscal) conservative by nature and world view, but Trump rarely does something I approve of, but he does just enough to keep me on his side. I'm a small business owner so Taxes, health insurance and Regulations are where my interest lie.

[PonoBill]

The regulatory rollback will be huge for small business. Anyone who has ever had to deal with OHSA will be thrilled. Federal regulators, by statute and by training ignore the economic results of their actions and enforce randomly.

Everything I see Trump doing appeals to the self interest of a particular but large group and has nothing to do with some lofty notion of good governance. It's a death blow to the democrats and a kick in the face to republicans. And it's going to work like gangbusters.

[pdxmike]

We dodged a bullet with JFK and Bay of Pigs...this scenario could have a different outcome...and, I don't think that wall is designed to keep long range missiles out....holy shmoly...;-)

That's a great reminder.  I'm just finishing an audio book about that:  https://www.amazon.com/Brilliant-Disaster-Castro-Americas-Invasion/dp/1416596534

It was scary (along with the Cuban missile crisis shortly after) because it combined a comedy of errors with deadly consequences if it hadn't been diffused.  Also heartening, in that the world survived it despite the ineptitude all around.  It also occurred early in JFK's term, when his inexperience and problems with how he'd set up the day-to-day workings of his administration contributed to the failures, so relevant to today.

[stoneaxe]

And there goes the national parks, didn't really need those anyways. Maybe when they're building a golf cours, and shut down your beach access, you guys will realize what kind of thug you put in the white house. Can't afford the national parks but here's a great new wall. Also happy Holocaust Rememberance Day!

https://medium.com/@wilderness/new-bill-would-sell-off-3-million-acres-of-public-lands-9593763ac893#.bxhx744l0

When you sensationalize headlines that aren't even close to what is happening you make your argument...and any other arguments you make less credible. How is that not fake news by the way? The national parks aren't being sold off to the highest bidder. It doesn't even say that in the article. The feds own 640 million acres....so the proposal is to sell less than 1/2%. Do you think the national parks are included in that %? I haven't read the details of the bill but I doubt it. And I'm pretty sure that a lot of folks out west feel the feds are poor stewards even beyond restricting access. It's obviously become a big issue for folks out there where they feel the feds have overreached.

I'm not excited by what Trump means for the environment but sensationalizing has backfired badly for the left.....time to be reasonable.

[johnysmoke]

When you sensationalize headlines that aren't even close to what is happening you make your argument...and any other arguments you make less credible. How is that not fake news by the way?

I'm not excited by what Trump means for the environment but sensationalizing has backfired badly for the left.....time to be reasonable.

Maybe when you guys start owning that you put a white supremacist and a game show host who won't release his taxes in the white house without any supervision, then I'll change my communication style. Until then I'll express myself anyway I want.

If this was a Romney or Kasich we wouldn't be having this conversation. You guys made a deal with the devil and you better be ready to own that shit if this goes off the tracks.

Also that post is a few days old, read faster cupcake!

[PonoBill]

Pretty sure Bob was referring to the link, not to your comments. 

[johnysmoke]

If that's the case, my reading skills apparently are starting to fail me, and I will agree that the media needs to stop sensationalizing headlines.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/jan/31/public-lands-sell-congress-bureau-management-chaffetz

Still I think it sets a bad precedent that these places can be sold off. Mismanaged can be tweaked, but private is pretty much forever.

[stoneaxe]

Pretty sure Bob was referring to the link, not to your comments.

No i was referring to the post with hysterical headlines. Love the unnecessary cupcake addition too....like the fact that I missed a post previously matters to the discussion.....

I'm not a trump supporter. But I think even maybe even more dangerous to the republic is the bullshit we see coming out of the media and when people like you add on by posting hyped headlines you do damage to real issues. Not that you will convince any right wing nutcases but well thought arguments with headlines that are real will do more to further your cause than bullshit that causes people to ignore you. As it is with the hyped headlines I simply assume you are just blowing more smoke. You've made some great posts with interesting perspective...no need for you to take the easy road with sensationalized headlines.

By the way...i agree with your perspective on the issue......

[johnysmoke]

Will avoid the high pitched squealing and try harder in the future. This political speak is fairly new to me, so I'm afraid I'm playing catch up. Thank you for the feedback, both positive and constructive.   
I also just feel strongly about the access issue. I used to guide and spent a lot of time in some amazing places, would hate to see that type of experience nickeled and dimed away by bureaucrats.