What a got damn shitshow. [warning politics]

[surfinJ]

Humor can be a nice salve for times like these.

[yugi]

Obviously this is before he signed the order, but you get the point about the countries that he has personal business ties with.

The 7 countries make perfect sense (nothing new). They are war zones and all have active al quaida or Daesh (ISIS) activity. Plus Iran because of the the nuclear issue.

[yugi]

As of Friday, the best-selling book on Amazon, is...

1984 - George Orwell


Yes, for real.

[PonoBill]

 With all the distractions it's challenging to understand what Trump is actually doing, and what I see should be much more upsetting to the democrats, and almost equally so to republicans. He's building on his base. And it has little to do with the current political elite or established relationships between government and industry and current allies and enemies. It is brilliant in its own nasty way.

For example, he met with union leaders over the weekend. Not a meet and greet, a full court meeting for almost two hours. That should have the dems shitting themselves but I see no mention of it. Then a few hours with major industries to talk about jobs, us manufacturing, tariffs, etc..

He shoots NAFTA in he head, and the media whines a little. That's the end of the globalism Bill Clinton started when he sold our asses to china.  I expect most of the favored nation status of China to evaporate.

He didn't care what judges did to his executive order. He's playing to the crowd, and they see an attempt to protect them that's been circumvented by liberal dickheads.

Populism, on a grand scale. With enough support he gets to do what he wants, and I don't know what that is. But I know established politics at home and abroad has no idea how to deal with the guy, and the media is being characteristically stupid. No hotels in the banned countries. How stupid can they be.  The people he's playing to, which is not just his current base, sees a rational idea, that needs tuning. The media is focused on people who don't deserve to be excluded, ignoring what the vast majority of Americans fear from refugees and the chaos in Europe that refugees have caused.  The media either does think he's playing small and crooked, or is pretending to think that. He's not.

You can keep following the drumbeat of panicked media, or start looking behind the nonsense to see what's happening, though I suspect that would worry anyone that hates the jerk a lot more.

Oh, and A10, your understanding of Islam sounds like it comes from a kids coloring book.  To virtually all Muslim sects, the worship of Jesus as god is idolatry. The reason sunnis kill shites is their low level worship of saints as representatives of God. Imagine what they think of people who worships Jesus AS god.  The "hey, Jesus is cool too" stuff is nonsense. Even Mohammed doesn't get a birthday celebration..

[johnysmoke]

So what is happening?
Creating a closed group within the government not using anyone but your own people. Talking to foreign countries not using US interpreters who have security clearance. Denying access to parts of the government that control science, parks,epa, fda,usda. Clearing out the state department. Running around with an unsecured Samsung Galaxy 3 phone and using private email. Waging a campaign against people who are "dangerous" but really easy to pick out. Who doesn't give a fuck about being sued? Who's been helping bomb the shit out of Syria and sending a steady stream of refugees into Europe?
Fuck, I'm going to go make myself a tinfoil hat.
Probably lefty but paints a good and worrisome picture.
https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.1xrimxa7r

[yugi]

Interesting excerpt from

They Thought They Were Free
The Germans, 1933-45
Milton Mayer

http://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.html

[stoneaxe]

My "deflections" to Clinton were mostly to point out your hypocrisy taut...this hasn't changed my opinion there. You've done nothing to prove otherwise. I agree that this is ridiculously heavy handed, I don't agree with his tactics. Existing green card holders, current visas....stupid. As for stopping further visas and immigration....we need to be far more picky about who gets let in...like I previously mentioned...believe in sharia...bye, bye. As for what countries....Saudi should be on the list. They and their export of Wahhabism are at the core of a large part of the worlds terrorism. The madrassas they have funded have been the source of jihad since their inception.
You guys can act like the left has no hand in this but just like Obama was in large part caused by Bush this is at least in part a reaction to years of the left pushing their agenda without compromise. None of you had any problem when Obama was wielding his pen...you reap what you sow. Unfortunately now we have Trump doing the sowing.

[PonoBill]

Of course he is, johnnysmoke. He can't assume or expect loyalty from established elites. Of course every president does that to some degree, but most have dues the need to pay. Trump doesn't. So yeah, heads will roll.

I can make a strong case for excluding people with current green cards and visas who leave the country and return. Anyone could.  The failure of the media to address rationale--if only to explain it away--and focus on the plight of unjustly excluded people is absurd.

There are very few of Trumps actions that I support, but I understand all of them. They are not irrational. Keep thinking they are and you you play by Trumps playbook. 

[johnysmoke]

Of course he is, johnnysmoke. He can't assume or expect loyalty from established elites. Of course every president does that to some degree, but most have dues the need to pay. Trump doesn't. So yeah, heads will roll.

I mean I can understand if the state department is all Clinton loyalist cleaning house, it's like a hostile takover. We have no idea what Trump's dues are because he never released his taxes. He's sold the notion of billionaire but we know he's leveraged heavily, but without the taxes we can only guess.

[johnysmoke]

There are very few of Trumps actions that I support, but I understand all of them. They are not irrational. Keep thinking they are and you you play by Trumps playbook.

I think he's completely irrational, but someone definitely has their long game on, and we're stuck playing catch up. Probably all just probing and testing reactions at this point, feeling things out, meanwhile building up resources and systems close at hand.

[pdxmike]

As of Friday, the best-selling book on Amazon, is...

1984 - George Orwell


Yes, for real.

As fiction or non-fiction?

[surf4food]

As for stopping further visas and immigration....we need to be far more picky about who gets let in...like I previously mentioned...believe in sharia...bye, bye.

I'm guessing that the overwhelming majority of Muslims trying to get here are trying to escape sharia law.

[SUP Leave]

I coached 9 youth basketball games this weekend and was too busy to actually review the "muslim ban" E.O. until a few minutes ago. My facebook and twitter was overwhelmed with the outcry all weekend, and it was impossible to try and pierce through all of that to get to what actually is in the E.O.

My wife and oldest daughter were asking me questions about it and I had no answer. With the reaction of the left and MSM to each item put forth from this administration, it is almost impossible to understand what is going on until you have a chance to really read up on the issue for yourself.

My first thought was "has any president ever done this before?" The answer is yes, but not to this extent or this ham-handedly. (Obama 2011 -Iraq refugees, Carter 1980 Iran visa holders).

PonoBill is right, it is Trump appealing to his populist base and completing another of his campaign promises. He is working faster than any president possibly ever, but in my opinion this should have passed through the proper channels. However, in Trump's mind he knows that this would take a month to pass through the proper channels, so he bypassed them. I almost never agree with McCain on anything and in this case he is right (someone posted above).

Obama started this program of abusing the Executive Orders to get things done, and Trump is going to follow his lead and then some. It will be interesting to see if Trump issues a revision regarding existing green card holders and folks working with our military (per McCain). He hasn't walked back much yet, so I'm not holding my breath.

[Subber]

Trump Pledges ‘Big Number’ on Dodd-Frank in Anti-Rule Push (Bloomberg, 1-30-17)
President Donald Trump stepped up his criticism of financial regulations, pledging to go after the 2010 Dodd-Frank banking overhaul because he said the law has made it difficult for businesses to get loans.

“We’re going to be doing a big number on Dodd-Frank," Trump said Monday at an event with small business leaders at the White House. He called the legislation “a disaster" and said, “It’s almost impossible now to start a small business and it’s virtually impossible to expand your existing business.”

Trump’s remarks are his most pointed on financial rules since he took office Jan. 20. His advisers vowed to dismantle Dodd-Frank during the transition period, but have provided scant details on how they plan to go about it. Trump didn’t say whether he planned to attack the law through executive action or by working with Congress on legislation.

Banks and investors have been trying to decipher how the billionaire will balance his populist message to the middle class with his Wall Street ties, which include a cadre of former Goldman Sachs Group Inc. bankers he’s tapped for key roles in his administration.

This will be interesting. 
We are already up to our eyeballs in debt.
Banks, brokers, insurance, already get huge subsidies, monopoly powers, etc.
He does have a lot of GS people in his cabinet and he is a debt guy.

Of course, the rules could be streamlined a lot,
but a lot of mayhem could be created.

We'll have to watch and see what he tries to do.

[Area 10]

Oh, and A10, your understanding of Islam sounds like it comes from a kids coloring book.  To virtually all Muslim sects, the worship of Jesus as god is idolatry. The reason sunnis kill shites is their low level worship of saints as representatives of God. Imagine what they think of people who worships Jesus AS god.  The "hey, Jesus is cool too" stuff is nonsense. Even Mohammed doesn't get a birthday celebration..

Wow, you and your brother are very quick to throw insults around, aren't you? I didn't say that Muslims believe in Jesus as a god. I said: "Jesus is arguably the second most revered religious figure in Islam" (after Mohammed).

Here's a typical summary of the position as described by Tarif Khalidi, who is a Palestinian historian who now holds the Shaykh Zayid Chair in Islamic and Arabic Studies at the American University of Beirut in Lebanon:

"Jesus reinterpreted by the Qur'an is singled out, again and again, as a prophet of very special significance. Uniquely among prophets he is described as a miracle of God, an aya; he is the word and spirit of God; he is the prophet of peace par excellence; and, finally it is he who predicts the coming of Muhammad (pbuh) and thus, one might say, is the harbinger of Islam".