Author Topic: Is GoFoil the Only Option?  (Read 7209 times)

PonoBill

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Re: Is GoFoil the Only Option?
« Reply #90 on: February 21, 2017, 09:11:42 AM »
It's an interesting idea, and certainly feasible. I do think you need to look more at sailing/boating than skiing/kiting for design since your ability to control pitch will be limited. It would probably be best not to worry about pitch at all, which to my mind suggests surface-piercing rather than submerged foils.

Alternatively, a long fuselage or two masts might make a better platform. You could buy the foil bits of a moth and shorten the masts. Moths use a sensor wand to control pitch. I think you'd need different foil blades, the high aspect, relatively small wings of a moth are designed for a large range of speed, but mostly fly at 10mph+. I think you'd need low aspect foils with a thick foil profile and lots of square inches. The moth foils are fairly complex, the wand moves a bellcrank on top of the mast that moves a pushrod running down the mast, which changes the AOA of the foil. The rear foil is the rudder and a screw inside the rudder extension drives a pushroad to adjust hull trim angle. Anyone who has ever cranked the rudder of a moth too quickly understands what high speed instability does. Google "international moth crashes".



But my experiments will be with surface piercing. I don't have any faith in my ability to finely control pitch with my lurching around.

Get the boat you want and we'll stick Geezerfoil II or III on it.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 09:16:03 AM by PonoBill »
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yugi

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Re: Is GoFoil the Only Option?
« Reply #91 on: February 21, 2017, 09:52:30 AM »
It's an interesting idea, and certainly feasible. I do think you need to look more at sailing/boating than skiing/kiting for design since your ability to control pitch will be limited.  ...

Exactly!

It can be done sitting down but it looks [and feels] like you're extremely constipated and trying to squeeze one out.

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Re: Is GoFoil the Only Option?
« Reply #92 on: February 21, 2017, 10:06:32 AM »
It can be done sitting down but it looks [and feels] like you're extremely constipated and trying to squeeze one out.

Hi Yugi,

Do you mean seated paddle sports in general or that you picture it being more so on a foil?

I guess we won't know until we try, but in an OC1 for instance you have quite a bit of pitch control by shifting your upper body.  As I would hope that the pumping (SUP and Surf) would be replaced by the ability to paddle on the foil I envision this being much less of a requirement.  For getting it initially flying I am looking at the seated air chair video and the weight shift is almost imperceptible.  Granted, more speed and power there. 

I agree that this would likely work with your setup as well Bill.  I think that body pitch control would be the most fun if it is feasible. That seems like it could be a great feeling.

yugi

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Re: Is GoFoil the Only Option?
« Reply #93 on: February 21, 2017, 10:28:17 AM »
Way more so for foiling since itís far more about trimming. As soon as you foil in surf stance you need to press on front foot. Sitting down as soon as you feel it foil you must act very constipated. Footstraps are key.

The AirChair guy making the weight shift look almost imperceptible is incredible skill.

What would be a great feeling?

supuk

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Re: Is GoFoil the Only Option?
« Reply #94 on: February 21, 2017, 10:31:52 AM »
With the air chair from what I rember when I used one back in the 90's pitch control was done all through raising your arms which changes were you are getting pulled from and there for the angle its was not through any weight shifting realy

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Re: Is GoFoil the Only Option?
« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2017, 02:18:40 PM »
What would be a great feeling?

The combination of the speed and glide of the foil (with pitch and roll being controlled by body motion) coupled with the additional power of a dual blade setup for glide maintenance and linking.  Full recognition that the air chair control in that video shows mastery. 

supuk

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Re: Is GoFoil the Only Option?
« Reply #96 on: February 21, 2017, 03:08:49 PM »
It's an interesting idea, and certainly feasible. I do think you need to look more at sailing/boating than skiing/kiting for design since your ability to control pitch will be limited. It would probably be best not to worry about pitch at all, which to my mind suggests surface-piercing rather than submerged foils.

Alternatively, a long fuselage or two masts might make a better platform. You could buy the foil bits of a moth and shorten the masts. Moths use a sensor wand to control pitch. I think you'd need different foil blades, the high aspect, relatively small wings of a moth are designed for a large range of speed, but mostly fly at 10mph+. I think you'd need low aspect foils with a thick foil profile and lots of square inches. The moth foils are fairly complex, the wand moves a bellcrank on top of the mast that moves a pushrod running down the mast, which changes the AOA of the foil. The rear foil is the rudder and a screw inside the rudder extension drives a pushroad to adjust hull trim angle. Anyone who has ever cranked the rudder of a moth too quickly understands what high speed instability does. Google "international moth crashes".



But my experiments will be with surface piercing. I don't have any faith in my ability to finely control pitch with my lurching around.

Get the boat you want and we'll stick Geezerfoil II or III on it.

to simplify things rather than having elevators on the wing and lots of push rods ect the bog boats just rake the foils forwards or back to change the trim it may be simpler to do however it would only need tiny movements. The price of moth foils would be fare beyond what anyone would want to pay but there is another similar boat called the wazp that is worth considering as it uses aluminium foils http://www.waszp.com/

 


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