This shit has to stop.

[PonoBill]

1Tube, I'm in the same camp, but that's just us. As a society and even as a species we've decided pain shouldn't be tolerated if you have a choice. I think there's a substantial genetic component to all this--but people treat that as if it were a moral high ground. It's not. For a lot of people, drugs are a baited trap.

When I see some drug addicted soul begging for change, I think "there but for the grace of a few base pairs go I". I've taken that bait and the trap didn't spring. Fortunate for me, but no moral difference.

[mrbig]

Demerol, percoset, percodan, and oxy. Have taken them all at one point or another. Breaking my leg in five places was painful. Never took a refill, though. Very, very, lucky. Have a very high tolerance for pain and not interested in being stoned any more.

There is no higher moral ground, but unlimited refills for lower back pain will definitely lead to addiction no matter how tough or strong you think you may be.

Chronic pain is real, talk to some vets, or civilians who survived serious accident trauma.

Meth factories a different animal.

If you are not comfortable in your own skin, you will do many things to ameliorate that discomfort. Anyone here addicted to excitement?

[Tom]

The problem is not so much that doctors prescribe drugs, it the amount that is in the prescription.  Last year I broke my ankle and took ibuprofen for 4 days before I went to  the doctor and got it diagnosed and a cast. They gave me a prescription for pain meds. The pharmacy gave me a bottle with a very large number of percocet pills. I refused it and stayed with the ibuprofen, but it shows how those types of drugs get into the market. I'm sure I could have sold those at the local high school for a lot of money.

[mrbig]

Yep. And the dosage. I gave away a large bottle of half used Percodan to a ski racer with a broken neck. Valuable on the open market!

[LaPerouseBay]

Interesting thread.  2 of my 4 siblings battle with addiction.  One of whom is still in hell.  It's amazing he's never been incarcerated.  Brutal stuff.  Both of them are smart, not like the Christie video successful, but way above average IQ's and social skills.  I'm baffled.  People are so enigmatic.   

My Mom is 83, on no meds, walks daily, sharp as a tack.  She says people used to get a toothache and it hurt.  Then you went to the dentist and he yanked out the tooth and it hurt some more.  Old people are cool.

I tried a vicodin years ago.  Yikes, that was one ugly feeling in my brain.  Major damage going on in there.   

Years later, broke my jaw and had to wait 6 hrs. for surgery.  Ice was working fine, but the nurse kept telling me, "have this shot, you will like it"  Boy was he right, that was heaven.  floating on a cloud. 

Tylenol with codeine for recovery.  It hurt, bad, for weeks.   I survived.  I think I owe the doctor big time for that prescription.         



 

[pdxmike]

A couple people have mentioned marijuana.  It can treat pain, nausea, anxiety, etc. far less expensively and at least similarly if not even more effectively than pharmaceuticals in many cases.  Its illegality has hampered research, but even now there are all kinds of products aimed at treating pain, with no "getting high" component if it's not desired.  As surfcowboy said, there are lots of people who'd be better off having a cheap edible than an expensive, addictive pharmaceutical pill.  But as he also said, the pills are acceptable, the edible is not, among much of society, even though the edible is now legal in several states.


There's a reason big drug companies spend so much fighting pot legalization.  They're also right in the middle of medical school education, so no surprise they're teaching new doctors that the solutions to every problem happen to be products they sell.

[pdxmike]

I knew a doctor who specialized in chronic pain.  Not focusing on treating patients, but on studying patients and their medical histories and treatments.  He was also a psychoanalyst, so skilled in talking to patients and getting to understand them.  He did a lot of expert witness work, and work for companies who had employees with long histories of insurance claims. 


He often found the patients had been misdiagnosed.  He'd study someone who'd say, had recurring back surgeries with no improvement over a decade, only to find they had a neurological problem causing the pain, and once that was treated the problem was gone, but only after a million dollars in surgeries and a decade of pain.


His view was the diagnosis is the most important part of treatment, but the typical one lasts a couple minutes, with doctors not being trained in what to ask or test for, or how to draw info out of patients, and also not really thinking it's important.  A large part of that could be their training that tells them, "If your patient has symptoms A and B but not C, then prescribe this pill".  They're already writing the prescription before they know anything about who their patient is.  Once the first prescription is written, that's the end of the diagnosis for that patient, other than perhaps adjusting the dose or the pill over the next several years.

[tautologies]

After my Achilles surgery, they gave me a ton of the opiate tablets. I took one day and didn't like it. I could still feel the pain, but I kind of didn't give a shit....and they scare me. So I talked with a friend of mine that is a dentist. She told me that a mix of ibuprofen and some acetaminophen. She had some instructions on how to take it, but told me that they find, in many cases, it as effective as really strong opiates for pain relief. It was pretty bad for a while, but I think it was because they severed some nerves.

Anyway. My point is that the combo kind of worked and put me in a lot less danger of getting hooked on anything so I do not understand why that isn;t the first line of defense for pain management. My doctor was a bit irritated because ibuprofen kind inhibits healing. I was happy because I didn't have to be drugged out.

[dietlin]

The unfettered shipments amount to 433 pain pills for every man, woman and child in West Virginia. - See more at: http://www.wvgazettemail.com/news-health/20161217/drug-firms-poured-780m-painkillers-into-wv-amid-rise-of-overdoses#sthash.5g2YrOtF.dpuf
 

[PonoBill]

The new Michael Lewis book has some eye-opening information about medical diagnosis.

[headmount]

If I took pain drugs that would eliminate 90% of my conversation potential.

[yugi]

A friend hurt his back pretty badly in a bike accident. He realised the dangers of taking pain and anti-inflammatory drugs long term. He researched cannabis for this, talked to his Dr who approved, found the right strains, preparations and methods to least affect ability to work and got off the prescription pain and anti-inflammatory drugs fast.

[PonoBill]

I took a muscle relaxer for back spasms after the BOP at Salt Creek. I overdid it by surfing all afternoon after the distance race. The doc gave me a prescription for a bottle full, and warned me about abuse. I took one and felt like a disembodied head.

Who the hell gets addicted to those? Two of my old friends, that's who. The why escapes me. I've enjoyed a lot of recreational drugs. I didn't see anything recreational about not being able to locate my body.

I think cultivating some pain tolerance is a good thing. Trust me, you're gonna need it when you turn 70. I avoid Advil and Tylenol now.

[lucabrasi]

Really interesting. Lots to think about.

[Ichabod Spoonbill]

I got a bottle of vicoden after I threw out my back. The funny thing was they did almost nothing for me. I kept wondering what the big deal was. People react differently to different chemicals. We had an almost full bottle lying around for about a year, then we got rid of it during a town sponsored med disposal. It would end up a tempting target for one of my son's friends after a while.


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