Author Topic: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.  (Read 4212 times)

Area 10

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2017, 06:14:11 PM »
Yes, I have a Spitfire fin. Invented by Dave Parmenter and Todd Bradley I think. I've got a brand new one unopened if you want one...

One of these came standard with my C4 Holoholo 12ft. That was a very interesting and effective pocket DW and small surf board. Wish I hadn't sold it now.

It's a shame that C4 Waterman are different now. For a couple of years there they were the most innovative SUP brand going.

coldsup

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2017, 01:12:34 AM »
It was more of curiosity - seems an old design so was surprised to see it being swapped in on a brand new board 2017 board.

Maybe it works well - certainly never see anyone with them these days - it looks a big beast!

Area 10

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2017, 01:29:56 AM »
It seems to me that people believe whatever they want to believe about fins. So I think I'll pass this time on offering an opinion on the Spitfire.

Eagle

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2017, 10:38:31 AM »
Ad copy says - "It is also ideal for straight-line flat water and open ocean paddling."

One reviewer says - "Great fin for open water and keeping a straight line. Really keeps board on course going downwind or upwind, lots of stability in the waves, but because of the length it does have more drag to it and it's not good for shallow areas."

Fin has a 4.3 base x 11.1 depth at 51 sq in.  Looks to be a deep fin that provides directional stability.  It seems fins that provide stability and tracking - have an offset of less speed and slower turning.  This one may catch weeds as well.  Could be that guy just simply likes this fin for his riding style and is really used to it. 

https://www.thesurfboardwarehouse.com/p-2489-fcs-ii-fins-c4-spitfirebrsup-racing-fin.aspx


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Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Eagle

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2017, 11:15:29 AM »
Basically - what probs happens is you adapt to the fin you use.  Looking at your fin quiver coldsup -> you look to have most bases covered from BP to Ultra to JL plus the squirrel and plenty of dolphins variations.

I often use my Gladiator Elite for AW tracking and stability - and it works ok for that.  Adds a lot of comfort and dampens the roll.  But is not good for side waves or fast turning.  As well feels kinda slow like it has a speed limit and can stall and broach if waves push you from behind.  Def not suited for DW applications - but does work to keep you on your toes.  Concentration levels go way up DW.

I really like the variation of fin designs.  Really allows you to change the feel of your board just like that.   :)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

ProBox-Larry

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2017, 08:03:48 PM »
Ad copy says - "It is also ideal for straight-line flat water and open ocean paddling."

One reviewer says - "Great fin for open water and keeping a straight line. Really keeps board on course going downwind or upwind, lots of stability in the waves, but because of the length it does have more drag to it and it's not good for shallow areas."

Fin has a 4.3 base x 11.1 depth at 51 sq in.  Looks to be a deep fin that provides directional stability.  It seems fins that provide stability and tracking - have an offset of less speed and slower turning.  This one may catch weeds as well.  Could be that guy just simply likes this fin for his riding style and is really used to it. 

https://www.thesurfboardwarehouse.com/p-2489-fcs-ii-fins-c4-spitfirebrsup-racing-fin.aspx



I have to agree with you Eagle this fin is not a Sup fin. Thought I would share from Swaylocks 10 years ago a fin called the Spitefire for Surfing. Interesting!!!!

http://www.swaylocks.com/groups/spitfire-fin-solo-pb-larry
10 years ago #1
Benny1's picture
Benny1
Last seen: 1 year 5 months ago
Joined: 07/29/2004
So there was a fin that caught my eye a couple months ago:

Because I'd been reading about tip drag etc. with all the talk about carbon hoops, Roy's fins, Oneula's Wavegrinder...

So Solo sent me this fin:

Made by Larry in this factory (see how many threads can come together?):

http://www.swaylocks.com/...orum.cgi?post=323606

And this is how I feel about it, after surfing it once in pretty nice south swell waves, about chest high...

OK Noel...

This fin can handle angles way beyond my abilities.

I put it all the way back in a box (that was already only 5" away from the tail) of a 10'1 longboard. Tail about 14", soft rails, tail rocker in an accelerated curve up to about 4". Its a composite board, only about 15 lb.

First wave I dropped into, I was 10' behind a section. But before I even had a chance to adjust my feet, I was popping out onto the shoulder. Had to drop a big kick stall to keep from outrunning the wave altogether.

And it was much the same on the next dozen waves.

I'm not kidding around or blowing smoke because I spent money - it was really all that. Kick stalls were the norm, probably had to throw one on 4 out of every 5 waves I caught today. My buddy Michael was saying how fast I was squirting out from behind the sections. There was even this dreadlocked guy who's always sitting inside, waiting to jump on when people can't make the section, and he had to keep pulling back when he could see that I was going to make it.

If this is what reduced ( or no?) tip drag is all about, then I want more.

Its funny: I'm a beginner kiteboarder. With a kite & light wind, you have to learn that keeping the kite moving creates more 'apparent wind' for the leading edge of the kite, making it seem to fly faster and therefore, create more lift. This fin felt just like a kite - on the big waves (like high wind), I could trim it out, park it, and go light speed. On the mushier waves, if I kept it moving - sine waves up & down, just like a kite - it would push faster & faster. Other fins, when the waves mush, you can push them but at a certain point it becomes academic.

How many more can you make?

:)

Thanks again

Ben

Edit: BTW, in case anyone was waiting for a review of the other fin combinations possible with that board... I've also tested the board twice with the Griff-type 5-fin setup, 4 equal 4" front & back side fins, and a 3" center. Its good off the bottom, faster & more stable in trim than I expected, rollercoasters nicely, but hangs up in the top of the wave a little, like it would rather hold a high line than hit high & come back down. Takes more effort than I thought it would to redirect downwards.

Next up (if I can bring myself to take out the Spitfire fin) is a quad, like Robin recommended (in the photo above), with the upright 4.5" fronts, raked 4" rears, so I can pivot off the fronts & drive off the back.

Now, all I need is some more waves. :)

1024655_winglesskeel2_0.jpg



dns

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #36 on: January 18, 2017, 09:44:47 AM »
So in addition to the FCS HI DW I picked up an LA Ninja. It's sitting on the board right now, but I haven't had a chance to paddle it yet. It's huge looking, a veritable work of art, and I'm excited to see how it compares to the FCS being such a different design, but also highly recommended for DW performance.

dns

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #37 on: January 29, 2017, 02:42:29 PM »
So, I just had my first paddle on the Ninja and I'm decidedly lukewarm on it.  :-\ We did a 7 mile sort of DW run with a 18kt quartering to full tailwind, tailing 1-2 foot secondary swell, and a 4-5 foot primary swell at 80* from the left. The Ninja surfed really nicely, felt good and slippery through the water, but the lack of stability was brutal. I fell off MANY times, I thought it was just because I'm crap, but halfway through I swapped to my buddies Falcon (same board same year) but with a BP dolphin fin. The difference was HUGE. I was no longer falling off and definitely making saves that previously had me in the drink. (And, conversely, he spent a LOT more time in the water.)

So, I think the Ninja may be a good fin for ideal conditions, but in anything less than perfect the FCS is going to be the ticket. More reports to follow.

Eagle

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #38 on: January 29, 2017, 09:06:30 PM »
The Ninja surfed really nicely, felt good and slippery through the water, but the lack of stability was brutal. I fell off MANY times

dns - are these the 2 fins you have been testing?  It seems FCS does not have a Hawaii fin -> but Futures does.  For the Ninja - what do you think is causing so much instability? 
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

dns

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #39 on: January 29, 2017, 10:21:14 PM »
Sorry, yes. It is the Futures Hawaii DW. I was a little loopy when I typed that.  :o I'm really not a fin guru by any means, but if I had to speculate I'd say it had to do with area in the tip. The Ninja has little area in the tip, so less area providing roll stability. With the BP dolphin I easily recovered from 45* board angles, but with the N the board just kept rolling. Again, the N feels like a good fin, it surfs nicely, but with steep 4-5 foot swells coming from the side I just kept getting tossed off. Also, when I lost speed coming off the back of a bump the board got very unstable. In better conditions (and if I were better) I think it would be a good fin, but in nasty washing machine conditions I need more help in the stability department.

Area 10

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2017, 05:06:49 AM »
Your experiences with the Ninja downwind are exactly what I'd have predicted.

Eagle

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2017, 11:52:13 AM »
"The Ninja has little area in the tip, so less area providing roll stability. With the BP dolphin I easily recovered from 45* board angles, but with the N the board just kept rolling."

Very good info dns.  Interesting.

Even though I have 8 different fins - they are of somewhat similar themes.  So pretty much know how each one handles down to a T after using them so much.  But other fin designs not so much.  My major concerns are stability and tracking then maneuverability and speed.  And finding the best blend given the board and conditions.  So far the SIC 8.3 and 7.0 have produced the best results for me.  But am always open to different approaches.

With your Hawaii - what are you feeling with that fin?  Good and bad?
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

burchas

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2017, 01:41:49 PM »
Sorry, yes. It is the Futures Hawaii DW. I was a little loopy when I typed that.  :o I'm really not a fin guru by any means, but if I had to speculate I'd say it had to do with area in the tip. The Ninja has little area in the tip, so less area providing roll stability. With the BP dolphin I easily recovered from 45* board angles, but with the N the board just kept rolling. Again, the N feels like a good fin, it surfs nicely, but with steep 4-5 foot swells coming from the side I just kept getting tossed off. Also, when I lost speed coming off the back of a bump the board got very unstable. In better conditions (and if I were better) I think it would be a good fin, but in nasty washing machine conditions I need more help in the stability department.

dns, after reading your latest post, I would suggest you look into the  new
LA Spartan fin. I have some issues as you do and it seem to check all the
boxes. I posted a short video review here on the zone: http://www.standupzone.com/forum/index.php/topic,31280.0.html
Illustrating "good saves" I wasn't able to achieve with other fins.

The board on display is a very tippy board with a very rounded bottom and
lots of volume (340L) so broaching is a big issue. The fin is also very fast to carry you over in between glides.
- Infinty Badfish 14x24 - goo.gl/eAAVEe
- SIC FX 12.6 2X - goo.gl/GOkSHT
- Red 2017 Elite 14x25 - goo.gl/Su8lJk
- Blue Planet PC 8'6
- ULI Totem 7.6
- ZRE Lightning 75
- ZRE Multiflex 80/85 - goo.gl/Rwu3rZ
- QuickBlade Trifecta 86

dns

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2017, 07:04:10 PM »
"The Ninja has little area in the tip, so less area providing roll stability. With the BP dolphin I easily recovered from 45* board angles, but with the N the board just kept rolling."

Very good info dns.  Interesting.

Even though I have 8 different fins - they are of somewhat similar themes.  So pretty much know how each one handles down to a T after using them so much.  But other fin designs not so much.  My major concerns are stability and tracking then maneuverability and speed.  And finding the best blend given the board and conditions.  So far the SIC 8.3 and 7.0 have produced the best results for me.  But am always open to different approaches.

With your Hawaii - what are you feeling with that fin?  Good and bad?

I think the HI DW is going to be the best fin for my balance, my conditions, and this board. I need to ride it more, but the straight vertical profile seems to impart the proper combination of loose surfability, stability, and speed. The HIDW surfs really nice, it feels like a regular surfboard in that I can carve on the bump and the board reacts like I expect it to. I don't have to weight the opposite edge to get the board to turn. When paddling the board tracks well, but I can still turn it easily with wide paddle strokes unlike the big dolphin that I had on there before.

After reading a ton of posts, reviews, and manufacturer propaganda I can't find any reason, besides weed shedding, to go with a raked fin. I don't have to deal with weeds in my part of the world, so that's not an issue. The Ninja surfed nicely, it felt very similar to the HIDW when surfing, but lacked stability at low speed and getting getting hit with cross chop.

Eagle

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Re: Help Selecting DW Fin For Falcon.
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2017, 08:44:00 PM »
Thx for that review dns.  The closest fin we have to the HI DW is the Race 23 fin shown on the right in the pic.  That is my third best option and most vertical profile fin - but find that it has a top end speed limit surfing and planing down and across waves.  Turns ok with only a very small amount of stall - but does feel a bit squirrelly at full speed. 

The SIC 8.3 feels better at speed but can stall a slight amount more.  The 7.0 has no stall issues and literally turns on a dime.  Works ok on my AS23 and transforms my M14 into a turning demon.  Makes that board completely change from a sticky slow board into a responsive fast board.  Basically if the JL Tracker is put on the Bullet and 7.0 is put on the M14 -> the M14 is a better performing board.  Is more stable and turns faster - and becomes a very fun ride.  Fins make a huge difference.

Look forward to more of your input on fins in the future.  :)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

 


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