Author Topic: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016  (Read 25377 times)

Eagle

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #30 on: January 03, 2017, 03:15:09 PM »
The AS23 is actually not bad when you get back over the fat tail.  It maneuvers quite well even though it has that triple concave.  But since I cannot surf the tail like Clement - my skill level on the Ace or even my Touring pin is quite lame.  I can just dig in and surf along.  And sometimes plane if the waves ahead are small.  Not a lot more.  Just enough to get me by in about 25-30 kts.  Otherwise I find the pin to be too tricky.  Not many can do what Clement easily demonstrates.  As noted many times  - my balance is crap - and that is why I got the AS23.  Best board for the average joe to improve their balance by far.  Another one is to stand way forward on the Dom deep vee or much better - stand way back on a rounded pin.  Stationary with no brace.  Then with eyes closed.   ;)
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

yugi

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2017, 09:02:06 PM »
. [forgot to add pic]
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 09:05:21 PM by yugi »

yugi

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #32 on: January 03, 2017, 09:10:13 PM »
"You don’t need that extra rocker for steep short period downwinds. You adapt pretty quickly to lower rocker which is why all current DW boards are lower rocker. I’d even say its funner and faster. Makes you be correct more of the time."

yugi - you must be joking about this.  Just try if you can - riding a flat rocker AS23 vs a M14 in steep  short period DW.  Anything 15-30 kts would work.  And let me know what you think.  You do not adapt pretty quickly in festive conditions unless you are Connor or Kai.  The AS23 is pretty much all I can handle in 15 kts.  20 kts DW with steep waves is pushing my limits hugely on that board.  15 kts small waves is super fun though.  Actually is perfect in that.

No doubt the AS23 would kick my ass. But that would be the 23 part, not a lack of rocker.

No doubt huge rocker works in windy big short period swell. It certainly is more foolproof.

What I’m saying is that you can learn to ride something with lower rocker. Foolproof isn’t always best either, learning and performance is major fun. I had an M14, I know it well. I’ve ridden lots of low rocker boards on very festive steep short period downwinds, and not just clean low fetch high wind easy groomed stuff, far the opposite. Very low rocker can work very well. Note it’s not just about rocker. Bear with me.

A Naish Maliko is very low rocker. A x26 in big conditions certainly spanks me. I’ve spent a lot of time getting back on it. It’s tricky because it’s so light and accelerations are so quick that very exact balance and very good sense of what it going to do are necessary. I’m definitely getting a lot better. I don’t like this kind of board for bigger downwiders. It has more to do with its very directional, parallel outline and vertical sidewall rails than low rocker. It’s not very turny, it’s more a move back and pivot kind of board. In strong wind fresh fetch clean conditions like DJ has or the longer fast ocean rollers like Cape Town I can see it working. But, IMO, there are conditions where it just isn’t fun.

Very low rocker can work just fine. I’ve ridden a custom 14’x26 with very low rocker, you’d think it was a mistake. Low volume too. Triming it to keep the nose just a few inches off the water at all times, turning it to keep it’s pointy nose between the waves is a blast. Surprisingly this board excels in very festive steep short nasty stuff. Lack of vertical sidewalls is a godsend in crazy mixed up stuff. I think A10 will understand, on this it is similar to the CGrey you have. Pic below.

A agree, the BulletV2, is less ideal for mentioned conditions. It’s not about it’s low rocker. It’s that it’s more a stable ride than a nimble ride and it’s shoulders are a bit wide. It’s too big and voluminous, for me and I imagine you, to be nimble. Nore is it optimised for that. It’s a board more for bigger riders.

When I switched from M14 to Rogue, which is possibly lower rocker than Bullet V2, I had concerns similar to what you express. I poked a lot more in the beginning. Now I rarely do. I absolutely love that board in very big, short, steep conditions.  The Rogue handles short steep perfectly. So easy to keep the nose just where you want it. I love that board.

The Rail26 might be just even better. I think a Rail26 would work nicely in your conditions. The Rail has a little more rocker, right up front at the tip, than a BulletV2 or a Rogue. It is slightly tuned more for exactly your conditions. You’d still need to change your tactics in a wave from an M14. But as mentioned that learning curve is maybe just exactly what is so fun.



« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 09:13:46 PM by yugi »

Eagle

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #33 on: January 03, 2017, 10:01:42 PM »
Oddly I do have some idea about low rocker pintail shapes.  The Touring does all of that and more.  But is more of a handful because it has this big heavy piercing displacement nose that easily pearls twists and dumps.  A fair bit tubbier though at its max width but narrows very quickly at both ends.  Quite a pleasant fast AW shape actually.  So can appreciate the differences btwn boards.  I have always noted that pearling is not a positive - but a negative.  And if you do this -> you need to step back and adjust your fore aft trim.  Mandatory.  My objective always is to go to the verge of pearling - and just.  A very fine line - but this gives max speed down the wave before stepping back to unstick and plane.

The Rail has much more rocker than the AS23.  Inches and inches more.  In medium conditions the Rail 26.5 looks perfectly fine for a DW board though.  To me it looks to be a blend btwn the Bullet V1 and Bullet V2 with a little vee entry - continuous rocker - and a slimmer shape.  The Bullet V2 is a bit deceiving though.  The wider shoulders are wider above water but not at waterline compared to the M14.  The actual measurements were very eye opening.  As noted though - the AS23 and Rail 26.5 would probs be perfect around here if I had only 2 boards to choose from.  Remember I started to DW on the Dom then Touring then Bullet.  So am very used to low rocker boards.  I have taken all those boards out in very inclement conditions.  AW and DW.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

Eagle

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #34 on: January 03, 2017, 10:40:44 PM »
Here are some rocker line Rail 28 pics from viator vs my 28 M14.  Would be interesting to see if the 26.5 rocker is less or the same.
Fast is FUN!   8)
Dominator - Touring Pintail - Bullet V2 - M14 - AS23

DavidJohn

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #35 on: January 03, 2017, 10:57:27 PM »
"
A Naish Maliko is very low rocker. A x26 in big conditions certainly spanks me. I’ve spent a lot of time getting back on it. It’s tricky because it’s so light and accelerations are so quick that very exact balance and very good sense of what it going to do are necessary. I’m definitely getting a lot better. I don’t like this kind of board for bigger downwiders. It has more to do with its very directional, parallel outline and vertical sidewall rails than low rocker. It’s not very turny, it’s more a move back and pivot kind of board. In strong wind fresh fetch clean conditions like DJ has or the longer fast ocean rollers like Cape Town I can see it working. But, IMO, there are conditions where it just isn’t fun."

It does look like it has very little rocker but looking at the nose is very deceiving because the whole board has a continuous rocker with a lot towards the rear (not tail).. I'll have to take a pick showing how high the nose sits if you were to stand on the tail on flat ground.. I think this type of rocker is necessary to get max water-line and glide out of as short a board possible.. It does take more skill to make it work compared to your typical DW style board..

I call this shape a 'clubby-board' shape.. and they've been at this a lot longer than us..

yugi

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #36 on: January 03, 2017, 11:30:33 PM »
Here are some rocker line Rail 28 pics from viator vs my 28 M14.  Would be interesting to see if the 26.5 rocker is less or the same.

less


dk78

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #37 on: January 04, 2017, 12:11:55 AM »

Anyone that wants to turn on a DW needs to get a 7.0 fin.  It saved me yesterday from a stall and broach because of its small size - yet gave me just enough directional stability.  In the breezy side wind yesterday - I was going full power left but the board was mostly wanting to still go right.  Not good if it is blowing you away from land.  Did get the board to plane a bit so that was worth it.   ;D

I concur with Eagle on the smaller fin.

A10,
recently you recommended a bigger fin for bigger conditions. What was with that? I’m in Eagles camp.
 
DK,
You got some fins to fiddle with the Rail26? Let us know what works for you. You are the turn master so I’d love to hear what you think.


For the last 4 years I have been using the Aercor from Larry Allison and Jeremy Riggs. It works great in all conditions, no drag at all and makes the board super loose on the bumps. Everyone who tries it says the best.

Area 10

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #38 on: January 04, 2017, 01:44:21 AM »
Here are some rocker line Rail 28 pics from viator vs my 28 M14.  Would be interesting to see if the 26.5 rocker is less or the same.

less
Are you sure? It's unusual to change the rocker between different width models of the same design. In fact, sometimes even different length boards within a range will maintain the same amount of overall rocker (e.g. the first Naish Glide range).

I haven't seen a Rail 26.5 for a while. But when I did look st one I didn't remember thinking it was particularly low rocker. What I did think at the time was that it was probably too close in overall design concept to my Bullet V1 to justify owning both.

We need someone to actually measure the rocker of the Rail 14x26.5" and 28".

There are advantages and disadvantages to both low rocker and high rocker designs.

yugi

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #39 on: January 04, 2017, 02:14:28 AM »
ooops, sorry. I missread the question and answered Rail vs M14.

I have not seen the Rail28. Looks exactly the same as the 26. I Imagine it is just scaled up in both volume and width.

yugi

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #40 on: January 04, 2017, 02:29:56 AM »

For the last 4 years I have been using the Aercor from Larry Allison and Jeremy Riggs. It works great in all conditions, no drag at all and makes the board super loose on the bumps. Everyone who tries it says the best.

It makes sense in a few ways. I should try it.

If Larry makes any changes to it I'd request a lower angle at the base. We got weeds here in summer.

Area 10

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #41 on: January 04, 2017, 03:26:40 AM »
I'd like to try an Aercor but haven't been able to buy one. I've tried several times but either I've got no reply from Larry or Jeremy Riggs or they have been out of stock.

I'm a bit suspicious about its surfing capabilities though. Many of the runs I do end with beach breaks, so you really needs fin that can surf well, not just downwind. Anyway, I enjoy surfing my DW boards in small stuff. In fact last week I surfed my 16ft x14.5" DW board on a sandbank bombora and the GPS showed a total of 4 miles spent actually wave-riding in a 2.5hr session! You couldn't do that on a 7ft short SUP (well, I couldn't, anyway).

But I'm willing to try an Aervor, if only I could actually get my hands on one. Some US sources seem reluctant to deal with overseas customers.

yugi

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #42 on: January 04, 2017, 04:03:02 AM »
That's an impressively narrow board, A10!

Area 10

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #43 on: January 04, 2017, 05:09:22 AM »
Haha! Sorry, that should have read 24.5".

I wouldn't want to go any narrower. I tend to find my toes regularly off the deck pad as it is. I'm fairly broad, and 26" wide feels about right to me. My 23" and 25" wide 14ft boards often too have me wishing for more deck area. I hardly ever hit the rail with the paddle on a 26" wide board, so it's not clear to me that for someone my build going narrower brings much advantage.

yugi

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Re: Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016
« Reply #44 on: January 04, 2017, 08:21:01 AM »
^ interesting that you choose that long narrow gun to surf with. Now I want to try that one even more.

 


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