Winter Monsoon Downwind Vid - Best conditions of 2016

[Off-Shore]

Yesterday we had probably the best conditions of the whole year. Not the strongest wind of the year which happened in January, but strong enough, and blue skies, and warm for this time of the year. Made for one epic day downwinding. Several guys did the run (10km / 6.4kms) twice, it was that good. Hope the video below captures the essence of the run and the awesome conditions. It was that windy, that the GoPro Hero 5 did not record any sound..


Sail Systems 3rd Person Mount + GoPro Hero 5 Black

[burchas]

Great Stuff OS! you sure do get your fair share of fun out there in HK.

[Night Wing]

Another excellent video. If there is one thing I've definitely learned from watching your videos, after watching you fall and get back on your board, dugout style DW boards are not for me. I know I would prefer a DW board with a flat deck.

As always, thanks for sharing your video.

[Off-Shore]

Great Stuff OS! you sure do get your fair share of fun out there in HK.

Burchas. We have been unusually lucky with conditions recently, especially since it has been warmer than usual. On this particular day, I was supposed to be out of town but due to severe weather at my destination, my flight was postponed for 3 days.. Sometimes clouds do have silver linings. The delay meant I got to do this downwinder with our crew. Having watched the weather charts, Windguru and the local weather forecasts for days beforehand I had thought I was going to miss it.

Another excellent video. If there is one thing I've definitely learned from watching your videos, after watching you fall and get back on your board, dugout style DW boards are not for me. I know I would prefer a DW board with a flat deck.

Nightwing. The 3rd person mount does give quite a good view of falling off and getting back on the board. Actually I've found an interesting way to get back into the dugout. If I fall as I did in this one at 3:27 off the left hand side, I grab the center handle with my left hand and this drags the board perpendicular to the wind. Then by hooking my right arm over the downwind side of the board and pulling the board so it is on its side and the upwind rail is under the water, it is rather like waterstarting on a windsurfer. With the wind this strong and the board on its side perpendicular to the wind, the wind on the board almost drags you back onboard.. Or at least the effort is much less.

[yugi]

…
I’ve found an interesting way to get back into the dugout. If I fall as I did in this one at 3:27 off the left hand side, I grab the center handle with my left hand and this drags the board perpendicular to the wind. Then by hooking my right arm over the downwind side of the board and pulling the board so it is on its side and the upwind rail is under the water, it is rather like waterstarting on a windsurfer. With the wind this strong and the board on its side perpendicular to the wind, the wind on the board almost drags you back onboard.. Or at least the effort is much less.

sounds horrible! 
 
I can see the logic in flatwater and wind but with waves… way too random. By the time you’re in I imagine the next wave knocking you over. On a windsurfer you're up and away.

I never was never very attracted to these dugouts. Frankly, the more I hear about them the less attracted I get.

Thanks.

[dk78]

Cool video!

[Area 10]

…
I’ve found an interesting way to get back into the dugout. If I fall as I did in this one at 3:27 off the left hand side, I grab the center handle with my left hand and this drags the board perpendicular to the wind. Then by hooking my right arm over the downwind side of the board and pulling the board so it is on its side and the upwind rail is under the water, it is rather like waterstarting on a windsurfer. With the wind this strong and the board on its side perpendicular to the wind, the wind on the board almost drags you back onboard.. Or at least the effort is much less.

sounds horrible! 
 
I can see the logic in flatwater and wind but with waves… way too random. By the time you’re in I imagine the next wave knocking you over. On a windsurfer you're up and away.

I never was never very attracted to these dugouts. Frankly, the more I hear about them the less attracted I get.

Thanks.

Dugouts are for going fast and challenging yourself. They aren't for enjoyment. There is a certain thrill from the sense of being on the edge of control that you get with an Ace - you are always slightly at the mercy of this runaway thing. And the sheer consistent average speed and ease of getting into bumps is nice, especially if you are a competitive type. But unless you are truly supremely fit and gifted, you'll miss the sense of control and "surfability" of a rockered planing board, and your chances of dinging yourself or your board, or just getting so knackered that getting in your knees is all you can do, increase about tenfold. Loved most by intensely competitive masochists IMO. Mind you, my Ace is 25" wide and our winds are strong, so maybe the 27" wide one under 28 knots or so would be pretty comfortable. Dunno.

[Off-Shore]

Dugouts are for going fast and challenging yourself. They aren't for enjoyment. There is a certain thrill from the sense of being on the edge of control that you get with an Ace - you are always slightly at the mercy of this runaway thing. And the sheer consistent average speed and ease of getting into bumps is nice, especially if you are a competitive type. But unless you are truly supremely fit and gifted, you'll miss the sense of control and "surfability" of a rockered planing board, and your chances of dinging yourself or your board, or just getting so knackered that getting in your knees is all you can do, increase about tenfold. Loved most by intensely competitive masochists IMO. Mind you, my Ace is 25" wide and our winds are strong, so maybe the 27" wide one under 28 knots or so would be pretty comfortable. Dunno.

Area, you have nailed the experience on the ACE here nicely, and it dovetails into what dk78 was saying in the Jimmy Lewis Rail Downwind thread about getting a high overall speed on a downwind run, it is not the speed in the glides that is most important but the speed between them that matters. This is where the Ace excels, but then as the wind increases past 25 knots the board becomes squirley, and you get a feeling on it of being barely in control. To ride this properly at these wind speeds you need as you say to be supremely fit and gifted. The difference with the 27" wide one is that it is stable enough to never feel uncomfortable paddling flat out (between glides). So for me I definitely think sub 25 knot I prefer the 27" wide Ace dugout style, and particularly in the 15-20 knot range. Above 25 knots then the SIC Bullet 14s or F16 or Bullet 17s are what I now realize are more fun and controllable to ride.

I also have the 2016 All Star 14 x 27" but have not yet downwinded this properly (as it lives in the UK), but it feels like it would be more comfortable than the Ace in 25 knot+ winds

[Eagle]

Standing back on the Ace rounded tail is a very tippy experience.  But if you can do this - that board will go at a very high average speed DW.  Not many have that good balance on the scale of Clement or Connor.  Since that pretty much defines the limit for that board to the average joe in higher winds and steeper faced waves.

My fat Touring pintail already is hard enough to stand further and further back.  But I force myself to do it for buoy turns and cutting down across wave faces.  It becomes pretty much a necessity to learn as the balance point DW in steep waves is extremely small if you do not control the sharp displacement nose from pearling and twisting just like in the vid.  In that way the Touring is less forgiving vs the big Ace boof.  I have found that it is best to slow the board down to the speed of the wave so you surf along vs pearl into the wave ahead.  That board was never designed to DW much.

Whereas full on DW ski jump SIC and JL downwind surf nose boards allow you to launch off those same steep waves.  For me -> definitely the more rocker the better for steep drops.  And this is easiest for me with the M14.  But really good video showing exactly what a pearl twist and dump look like for those that do not DW.  That was really excellent.

[Off-Shore]

Thanks Eagle. I included those 2 falls and the pearl save to show that I am no master of the dugout beast yet.. I'd be interested to know at 5:40 in the vid if you would hold back or if you would go left or right? I definitely would have made this on my SIC Bullet 14 or F16 as I would have been able to steer the board right. But somehow on the Ace I could not. Maybe I just was not far back enough to footsteer the board as I just went barrelling down the face and right into the back of the wave in front which launched me off the board.

[Eagle]

Hi OS - at 5:40 I would have allowed the wave to give me a nice little push and then gunned it full power taking a step back in the process to keep the nose from pearling.  Hoping that was enough to get the bottom to unstick and plane. 

But with your Ace it is a different animal than my boards so cannot be certain how that board reacts on a wave like that.  On my Touring pin it has a fairly wide double concave that unsticks quite easily at speed.  So would definitely step back to keep from pearling.  Or if the drop was too steep would drag my blade and surf that wave to the right.  My guess is that if you stepped back enough you would have kept the nose from diving.  Your feet looked stationary.  The pin on the Touring does dig in nicely and you can control that board across a wave pretty good.  But you must get weight back over the fin.  Ok gotta go to a pub dance and party now.  Happy New Year OS and all Zoners!!

[Eagle]

Just took another look at the screenshots of your vid.  At 5:40 and 5:42 would be thinking to move back 6-12".  At 5:44 and 5:46 would be back 12-18" depending on the drop.  Then would try to weight the tail - hang on and drop down if it still started to pearl.  Your Ace pearl does get exaggerated because the birdbath fills up and lowers the COG with the huge weight of the water filling it up.

The Touring pin does not have this problem.  The Ace is a very difficult board to ride for the average joe once the drops get big and steep.  It has a lot more roll than the average surf nosed board.  Today on my M14 - could have even used more rocker -> the waves were so steep.  That is why my preference is for surf nosed boards when it gets festive.  Less pearling and more control.  Excellent vid though for sure.  Many DW noobs can learn a lot from that vid.

[Off-Shore]

Eagle, thanks for your tips and screenshots. It is amazing how much the dugout fills up.. I can absolutely see that my legs did not move much and the right thing would be to step back as you say and head right. Something I have done many times on my Bullet but need to summon up the courage to do on the Ace. This is a manoeuver that I practice a lot in the flat and in downbreezer conditions both goofy and regular foot, but have not practiced much on the Ace, and clearly need to. But as you say when things get festive, the surf-nosed boards will be my preference too.

[yugi]

It looked pretty obvious you were going to catch that one, Offshoot.

I have noticed that Olivia Piana (beaten in the Worlds by Penelope Strickland Armstrong on an Ace in the tech race), who usually has always been on an AllStar is now out on her Ace.

Check this recent vid out
   https://vimeo.com/193748424#t=40s
   

[Area 10]

It looked pretty obvious you were going to catch that one, Offshoot.

I have noticed that Olivia Piana (beaten in the Worlds by Penelope Strickland Armstrong on an Ace in the tech race), who usually has always been on an AllStar is now out on her Ace.

Check this recent vid out
   https://vimeo.com/193748424#t=40s
 

Yeah, but even someone as expert as Piano still doesn't look 100% relaxed on the Ace, underlining how tricky it is to downwind. As someone who has fallen off the Ace more times than I can remember, I am familiar with the half-crouch-as-if-I'm-about-to-take-a-standing-dump-with-feet-welded-to-the-spot downwind style that the Ace encourages, and usually precedes a bird-bath-boof experience.