Author Topic: Going Ballistic  (Read 15847 times)

Luc Benac

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #30 on: January 14, 2017, 02:43:38 PM »
Playing with the set-up of Larry W. Allison' fins on the Blackfish 26" this morning.
I tried two different setups on a 2km back and forth in flat water with receding tide just starting.
1) The PonoBill setup - small ventral as kick fin
2) The standard Blackfish setup - Stinger 6" as a kick fin

The PonoBill setup could be a little bit faster on flat unless the tide had been creeping-up on me. What I definitively noticed is that you do not even feel the fins with that setup. Acceleration is even easier and the board feels like zero drag. There is a loss of primary stability but secondary stability is still strong. This calls for more testing and likewise on the 24".

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Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #31 on: January 15, 2017, 01:01:28 PM »
Luc,

Last time I tried that setup with the small ventral as the center fin it did feel like zero drag
but also had zero forward momentum, the board just lost its punch. That was tested on
the SIC FX, I didn't even think about doing it on the new Blackfish with its deep channel.
This fin doesn't have enough base nor depth to be useful for anything in my experience.

Instead, when weather gets warmer and lakes defrost, I'll try the the medium ventral
VS. the 4" kick (the blue in the pic), even still, I can't see this setup helpful in any other conditions other than pure flat water. I still have better hopes for the triple stealth fins.

Last Friday I tried the board in open ocean, up/side winds 15-25knots. No twins, just ventral and
and the 7.5" Dolphin Junior. The board still felt stable for the most part. Could probably use the
stealth twins or the Dolphin Keel instead for when it was gusting sideways.

Either way, I can't see yet a situation where I'll need the larger (4" x 9.5") twins, but that remains to be seen.
in progress...

Luc Benac

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #32 on: January 15, 2017, 04:06:41 PM »
Which twins do you have outside of the 9" Stealth (original)?
Do you have:
the small Blackfish Twins (29 sqi)
the Elliptical (27 sqi)
Both are 9 1/2" long I believe

I agree that it is a weird set-up and to be used only in very flat water with no currents or wind. In these conditions the board really feels like a stone skimming the water.
As soon as there is any current, I think that indeed the board might loose forward momentum. I was using the small Blackfish twins which might give you more than the Stealth fins.
Anyway it is fun to just play around... :-)
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 04:08:38 PM by Luc Benac »
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
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PonoBill

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2017, 04:23:19 PM »
I found it not only faster (very similar results to yours) but also easier to control. I can push the tail around easier to steer. No significant change in stability. Takes a little while to get used to steering by shoving the tail, but I got used to it pretty quickly. It's the only way I've found to steer a twin-fin Blackfish.

Same problem single fin for downwind. I like a squirrel shape best so far, but I think and Aerocore would work well too.
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Luc Benac

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #34 on: January 15, 2017, 05:14:44 PM »
I should have my 24" back next week and I really want to start putting some miles on it. I would like to get to the point where I am comfortable on it in choppy water.
At 165 lbs and been a weak/slow paddler, I cannot help feeling that the 26" Blackfish requires a stronger paddler to be at its best.  I thing that it is a board better suited to a 185 lbs strong guy than me. It is great when water is really rough but by that point, I could as easily be on my downwind board....
If everything goes well with the 24" I will likely sell the 26".

I keep track of my paddling and while the definition of flat and Open is somewhat loose, I do try to get a sense of what I am doing with what.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 05:56:22 PM by Luc Benac »
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

Quickbeam

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #35 on: January 15, 2017, 07:33:02 PM »
Hey Luc,

Was that your Blackfish I saw at Wetcoast the other day? I had my Lahui Kai in for some minor repairs and when I went to pick it up Jimmy showed me a Blackfish they were working on. Sweet board.
Infinity Blackfish 12’ 6” x 23”
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 24”
Infinity Whiplash 12' 6" x 24 1/2"
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 26”
Bark Competitor 12’ 6” x 29”
Red Paddle Explorer (Inflatable) 13' 2" x 30
Starboard Airline (Inflatable) 12’ 6” x 27

Luc Benac

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #36 on: January 15, 2017, 07:40:45 PM »
Hey Luc,

Was that your Blackfish I saw at Wetcoast the other day? I had my Lahui Kai in for some minor repairs and when I went to pick it up Jimmy showed me a Blackfish they were working on. Sweet board.

Hello Quickbeam,
Yes it was. My (new) 14x24. James is putting the ProBoxes and ventral.
If you want to get together for a paddle at some point, you are welcome to try eithe rof my Blackfishes.
Cheers,
Luc
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

Quickbeam

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #37 on: January 15, 2017, 07:50:01 PM »
Thanks Luc. Just might take you up on your offer. We're off to Mexico at the end of the month, but maybe sometime after that.

And since you seem to have have a line on used Blackfish boards, if you ever hear of a 12' 6" X 24" for sale, I'd appreciate it if you would let me know (I put a posting in the for sale section but don't really hold out a lot of hope that I'll find anything that way).
Infinity Blackfish 12’ 6” x 23”
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 24”
Infinity Whiplash 12' 6" x 24 1/2"
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 26”
Bark Competitor 12’ 6” x 29”
Red Paddle Explorer (Inflatable) 13' 2" x 30
Starboard Airline (Inflatable) 12’ 6” x 27

Luc Benac

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #38 on: January 15, 2017, 07:53:20 PM »
Thanks Luc. Just might take you up on your offer. We're off to Mexico at the end of the month, but maybe sometime after that.

And since you seem to have have a line on used Blackfish boards, if you ever hear of a 12' 6" X 24" for sale, I'd appreciate it if you would let me know (I put a posting in the for sale section but don't really hold out a lot of hope that I'll find anything that way).

You should drop in California on your way back from Mexico....likely to find one there :-)
Any specific reason for a 12.6 rather than a 14 or anything narrow that would come available is OK?
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #39 on: January 15, 2017, 08:09:53 PM »
Which twins do you have outside of the 9" Stealth (original)?
Do you have:
the small Blackfish Twins (29 sqi)
the Elliptical (27 sqi)
Both are 9 1/2" long I believe


I have the 4x10 elliptical, small blackfish 4x9.5, big blackfish 4.5x11 and the stealth.
My go to on the SIC is the 4x10 + the 6" stinger

on the Blackfish I have yet to determine the best setup for certain conditions as it is still very new. Running the small blackfish with 7" stinger, the board felt over finned.
The stealth up until now felt more natural in 3 different center fin combinations:
- 7.5" Dolphin Junior
- 6" stinger
- 4" kick (the blue)

But still felt some drag. I have another set of modified stealth on the way along with the
Spartan and Aerocore.

Fin box on this board is 15.5" from the tail ( tail is 13" wide) and so stirring with the stealth
twins was not an issue.

Luc, your record keeping is impressive  8) I should be doing that but conditions around here
just doesn't allow a consistent testing environment as far as speed metrics. I always have
to drive 2 hours away to find a good lake for that metric. Either way, it's fun playing around
as you put it. Good Luck with the Blackfish 24.

I found it not only faster (very similar results to yours) but also easier to control. I can push the tail around easier to steer. No significant change in stability. Takes a little while to get used to steering by shoving the tail, but I got used to it pretty quickly. It's the only way I've found to steer a twin-fin Blackfish.

Same problem single fin for downwind. I like a squirrel shape best so far, but I think and Aerocore would work well too.

PBill, for which conditions are you using small ventral as the center fin and which twins are
you using with it?
in progress...

Quickbeam

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #40 on: January 15, 2017, 08:15:59 PM »
We're flying and already have the tickets, so won't be stopping in California.  ;)

As for 12'6", I just don't have storage for 14'. I know it's only 1' 6" difference, but it really does make a difference in our place. So my quiver is all 12' 6" boards.

As for other boards, I think for now I'll hold out for a Blackfish. I'm actually pretty happy with my Lahui Kai but the narrower Blackfish with the extra fins does intrigue me.
Infinity Blackfish 12’ 6” x 23”
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 24”
Infinity Whiplash 12' 6" x 24 1/2"
ONE SUP Evo 12’ 6” x 26”
Bark Competitor 12’ 6” x 29”
Red Paddle Explorer (Inflatable) 13' 2" x 30
Starboard Airline (Inflatable) 12’ 6” x 27

PonoBill

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #41 on: January 15, 2017, 08:23:47 PM »
PBill, for which conditions are you using small ventral as the center fin and which twins are
you using with it?

Everything but downwind. I'm not currently using a ventral fin in the forward position--I add that when I have to either deal with a lot of crosswind or extreme chop. I'm going to make a "fence" fin with no foil to test my thought that the ventral is just isolating the twin fins. I have no reason to think that would be useful other than intuition, but I'm giving it a go.

I've used both the ellipticals and the stock raked fins, and don't really see much difference. the raked might be a little more stable, but it's a small difference.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 08:26:08 PM by PonoBill »
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

Luc Benac

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #42 on: January 15, 2017, 09:02:58 PM »
I have the 4x10 elliptical, small blackfish 4x9.5, big blackfish 4.5x11 and the stealth.
- 7.5" Dolphin Junior
- 6" stinger
- 4" kick (the blue)
 I have another set of modified stealth on the way along with the
Spartan and Aerocore.

Glad to find somebody with more fins than I do :-)
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

Luc Benac

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #43 on: January 15, 2017, 09:05:40 PM »
I have another set of modified stealth on the way

Curious about these?
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

Luc Benac

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Re: Going Ballistic
« Reply #44 on: January 15, 2017, 09:07:31 PM »
I'm going to make a "fence" fin with no foil to test my thought that the ventral is just isolating the twin fins. I have no reason to think that would be useful other than intuition, but I'm giving it a go.

What size height and length are you thinking about?
Sunova Allwater 14'x25.5" 303L Viento 520
Sunova Torpedo 14'x27" 286L Salish 500
Naish Nalu 11'4" x 30" 180L Andaman 520
Sunova Steeze 10' x 31" 150L
Blackfish Paddles

 


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