Author Topic: Attach a foil to anything  (Read 2891 times)

surfcowboy

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2016, 11:42:22 PM »
Nice work man and thanks for the pic and post so quickly.

A lot of us haven't been around kites so thanks for catching us up.

PonoBill

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2016, 07:38:37 AM »
Of course the hard way is usually the right way, but if you have some chunkster board kicking around and you want to try foiling, then this would be a fine way to get rolling fast. I could stick it on my old twin-tip Naish kiteboard and it would be a permanent thing. While that thing floats, it feels and acts like a solid chunk of fiberglass. Got to be foam in there somewhere, but it wouldn't delam.

And yes, ia SUP baord is gonna delam, and yes, it will eventually break off. Most of the foils I've seen actually float. The masts displace a lot of water.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 07:41:32 AM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

stoneaxe

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2016, 08:21:12 AM »
Cool.....but why not make the surface area of the mount larger? Also, if the plate was an ellipse it would distribute the load more uniformly. On that note, where do the biggest loads on the mast occur during use?...front to back, side to side? Probably designed smaller so it will fit bottom contours on the largest # of boards?.
Bob

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yugi

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2016, 10:28:14 AM »
...
I could stick it on my old twin-tip Naish kiteboard and it would be a permanent thing. While that thing floats, it feels and acts like a solid chunk of fiberglass.
...

May I be the first to request a video of you paddling that thing out. I'm just curious how a board where you sink in up to your nipples handles when you paddle.

I'm always on the lookout for new school technique tips. What kind of paddle would you use? A sawn off outrigger paddle? I imagine stock length would be about twice too long.

PonoBill

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2016, 10:54:09 AM »
I think a duplex paddle--with a handle at canoe length and one at extended foil length.

On a more serious note, I think Bob is right, they could make a version for thin-skinned boards by extending the base substantially, making it egg-shaped, tapering the thickness out to the edges to reduce stress risers, and making it the full width of the most likely board--probably 24" or thereabouts. If they did that it would probably become the preferred method of adding a foil. It would be as strong or stronger than mounts that penetrate the foam. Not as strong as tuttles or through bolt but stronger than fin boxes. Foam doesn't provide a lot of support, even when you increase the load area with PVC foam insert--there's still EPS providing the ultimate support

the 3M mega adhesive doesn't lift from exposure to water. You have to cut it off somehow. Of the three mounts I've had to remove, I damaged the board in two cases. A wide mount like the one I'm daydreaming of would be as permanent as any glassed on mount.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 11:03:23 AM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

yugi

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2016, 11:10:35 AM »
^yep

do it

starman

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2016, 11:25:13 AM »
Quote
Foam doesn't provide a lot of support, even when you increase the load area with PVC foam insert--there's still EPS providing the ultimate support

Very true, however if the PVC foam insert is bonded to the deck then you would have created a fairly strong sandwich to support the foil. Which is basically the same as a Tuttle box.

Eagle

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2016, 12:28:01 PM »


Fast is FUN!   8)
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surfcowboy

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2016, 07:45:08 PM »
Pono, that design could be made of two pieces of laser cut or CNC aluminum welded together. I'm sure you can visualize it just from that.

Simple, elegant, light and strong. Easy to manufacture. The only thing to consider if using aluminum is fitting to the contours of the bottom if it didn't really flex. Maybe thinner outer bottom plate with a thicker inner plate for the slots. 10" wide for inner 1/4" thick with a 20" outer ellipse that's more flexible, maybe 1/8".

stoneaxe

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2016, 08:04:35 PM »
So early...lots of RD to do.

I wonder how 3D printing would work for it....on call manufacturing...3D scan the bottom of your board and they print a base to match.
Bob

8-4 Vec, 9-0 SouthCounty, 9-8 Starboard, 10-4 Foote Triton, 10-6 C4, 12-6 Starboard, 14-0 Vec (babysitting the 18-0 Speedboard) Ke Nalu Molokai, Ke Nalu Maliko, Ke Nalu Wiki Ke Nalu Konihi

PonoBill

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2016, 08:24:12 PM »
Both ways would probably work. I like the aluminum approach--you could probably make a very secure and stable aluminum base that would be as light as most composite approaches. the biggest problem with composites is that they don't distribute shock loads well.

I need a project to justify a CNC mill. Some of the new maker stuff is just fabulous. I made the mistake of going to the SF Maker Faire. I've been lusting after expensive toys ever since. I don't do much with my 3D printers--they're in the toy category. The on call printers are much more capable.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 08:32:48 PM by PonoBill »
Ponohouse is for sale: http://www.ponohouse.com
Foote 10'4X34", SIC 17.5 V1 hollow and an EPS one in Hood River. Foote 9'0" x 31", L41 8'8", 18' Speedboard, etc. etc.

blueplanetsurf

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #26 on: December 21, 2016, 02:38:41 PM »


This tuttle box installation video is very good.  The tuttle box is encased in high density foam and connects the top and bottom glass of the board for a much stronger installation than regular fin boxes.  After experiencing the amount of force applied to a foil, I would not attempt to foil with a stick on mount.  Keep in mind that the forces on a foil are much greater than those on a regular fin box.  The foil carries the full weight of the rider and board and in addition is a long lever that multiplies the force.  We broke a mast in our early foiling attempts and it was made of solid, very thick carbon fiber and I doubt this stick on mount would have been as strong as the mast we broke. 
I think part of the reason it broke is that we were beginners and not using the foil with finesse but that's what happens when you are learning something and you don't have the skills yet to let the foil do the work.  For more advanced riders that already know how to foil, this could be a good way to quickly retrofit a board but I would wait to see how it holds up for beginners before recommending it for anyone.


« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 02:51:02 PM by blueplanetsurf »
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Davila1234

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2016, 02:05:15 PM »
After checking out the Foil Mount System, I found another video about it on youtube. It seems pretty solid when attached to a board. It's probably a permanent solution. The board may even have to snap in half before the mount would ever come off! You should check it out too.

« Last Edit: December 27, 2016, 02:19:03 PM by Davila1234 »

supuk

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2016, 04:19:37 PM »
Im sure the adhesive is up to it but the light glass job on most sups is what most are questioning.

Area 10

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Re: Attach a foil to anything
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2016, 07:03:48 PM »
Yeah it's the board you are attaching it to that's the worry, not the foil.

Unless you've seen a SUP cut in half you might not realise how little material there actually is there. The skin can be as thin as around a millimetre thick (on e.g. a single skin carbon board) on the bottom. That's all that is separating you from foam (which by the way usually isn't some fancy stuff, but often just looks like cheap packing foam you'd throw away when a new TV is delivered).

So, how is this going to have the strength to take the pressure that this foil would make upon it?

 


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