SUP downwind video- when a wider board is faster

[blueplanetsurf]

This Stand Up paddle Downwind video filmed and narrated by Jeff Chang and myself shows how a wider board can be faster in rough conditons.  In this video, we are all on 14' Bump Rider models.  Jeff Chang is on a 30" wide version, Tyler Jaggers (blue shirt) on a 28" wide one and Robert Stehlik (white shirt) on a 27" wide board.  Other than the width, the boards are very similar in terms of rocker line, rails and volume distribution.  The footage was shot on a downwind run from Sandy Beach to Waikiki.  The final few miles of the Molokai race go through the first part of this run, so it's a great training run for the M2O race.  In our experience, a wider board is often faster in windy conditions, even for a good paddler with good balance.  Besides being more stable, a wider board also creates more lift which can result in more, longer glides on the bumps.  Thoughts?

[Area 10]

I agree that a wider board can be faster. But you do need pretty lively conditions before this is true. You need the kind of wind strength where you are getting blown into bumps rather than having to paddle for them to see it best IMO. Ivan from Coreban held the record for their Cape Town run for some time on a 30" wide Dart, up against many narrower boards. It was set in howling conditions, I think. Part of the issue I think is that it is easier to avoid digging or unnecessarily weighting a rail on a wider board. Maybe this is related to your planing area explanation, but I'm not entirely sure. Certainly, keeping a board on an even keel is likely to be fastest, whether you invoke notions of planing or not, and whether you are downwinding or not. It's just much harder to do it downwinding, and every little unnecessary wobble is scuffing off speed and glide. One of the reasons why the Ace is so fast downwind I think (for those who can handle it) is that you don't ever really dig a rail on it because they are about 10" deep or something.

But there are also many conditions (and judging by the videos we see here, perhaps a majority that most people regularly go out in) where a narrower board is faster. IMO most times you need to make a real effort to get on a bump, a narrower board will be faster, with the same design and paddler.

[southwesterly]

 "E Aho Laula."

[Chilly]

Hydrodynamic wise I would say no to wider is faster in downwind conditions or any condition. I’m not so sure about the lift part either. I think the biggest factor especially in the condition that the video was taken in is fatigue. You will definitely fatigue much quicker on a narrow board and that will make you much slower.
Your logo crashing into the water at the end is super cool!

[blueplanetsurf]

There is a reason why Formula windsurf boards are super wide and flat- they plane much easier/ earlier than narrow boards and planing is always faster than pushing through the water.  We don't reach these kind of speeds but I think lift is very important in a downwind board and whether you call it planing or not, on a bump the board is gliding over the surface of the water faster than the hull speed rather than pushing through it.

[DavidJohn]

Recently Jonathan was faster than me on his new 12'x 30'' Starboard..

I was on my 14'x 28'' board.. but it won't be the same for everyone..

[supuk]

Not true at all thats like saying a a 12'6 is faster than a unlimited and we all know that is not true! especially down wind. however if it were  'when a wider board can make you faster' or something along those lines it is very much true.

Its pretty simple what it comes down to is the person stood on the board and how they are able to cope with it and the conditions, and of course if the rider does not have the ability to put the power down on a narrow board something wider and more stable would make the RIDER faster

14'x26 for me is the board i can go out on and almost guarantee i will stay dry on any dw run up to about 2hours long. Going to 30 wide my paddle stroke is distorted by having to reach so far to the side, i can do less strokes per side as the turning moment from the wider stoke is increased so less efficient and slower. Going wider does not make me faster.

You can not compare to windsurf boards they are totally different thats like comparing a yacht to a powerboat.

[Area 10]

Ok so the obvious Q: If wider boards are faster for DW then why aren't the M2O winners all riding 36" wide boards?

[DavidJohn]

Ok so the obvious Q: If wider boards are faster for DW then why aren't the M2O winners all riding 36" wide boards?

M2O winners are aliens.. 

[Area 10]

Even aliens would have the sense to use the faster board 😀

[yugi]

I’ve often wondered this. Currently I’m on a 27” wide DW board and toying with moving to 25”. As a quiver-of-one board it should be better in flat, light and chop conditions but I wonder how it will be on a DW.

You talk about 2 things in your video. Comfortable platform allowing you to paddle easier and wider surface carrying a plane further.

For rough conditions like those (we get lots of this) we like a thiner profile board. Cross chop side slaps have less effect on you and that bit of water on (over) the rails stabilises it. As discussed by Bert Burger here: 
   https://youtu.be/CXWMoXc7snI?t=3m1s
A10, how are you getting on with your CG custom?


As a dinghy racer/windsurfer/kitesurfer/wakeboarder I’ve always expected a wider platform to plane more. I’m kind of used to 27” wide now and would find 30” a hassle (and too sticky for our speeds). I wonder how 25” wide would be, is it past the point of diminishing returns for me?

Like A10 mentions I do notice racers on narrow boards for hardcore DWs. Are they onto something or just riding those to be faster in medium conditions? Will I get used to a 25” wide board it like I did with 27”? I wonder and I’m a bit nervous about taking that leap of faith.

[supuk]

We are very rarely ever fully plaining on a dw board, there will always be way more of a displacement effect than a plaining benefit. Just look at any dw video the one above shows it very clearly.

[Night Wing]

Enjoyed watching both videos in this thread. Even I thought the narrower board would be faster in the heavy wave conditions. Learn something new everyday.

[Eagle]

Seems like the narrow AS did ok on flat and DW in the Gorge according to this report.  With my crappy balance though I would leave my AS23 - and use my Bullet or M14.  Much prefer staying dry.   

[burchas]

Totally agree with Robert.

On my first Maliko run I tried 2 boards: Bullet 14v1 (14x27) and F14 (14x30).

I was able to get a lot more and longer glides with the F14 and while the Bullet
felt exactly like its name suggests, I found my self doing some very fast nose dives and catching rails more than I would like to.

On the second run things were a little different but not by much, I tried the same bullet 14V1 but this time was the other board was Bullet 17v1 and while the Bullet 17 was noticeably heavier, I had better experience with it.

A week later on my first downwind in Hood River, things were a lot different.
I had the Bullet 14v2 (14x27) and later on the FX pro (14x25), a board shape I use all the time.
I was way faster on the FX pro which is narrower and lighter board and didn't find my self swimming more than I was on the Bullet. That's because I felt right at home on the river water and it didn't feel rough at all compared to open ocean so board width and weight didn't play any role for me as far as confidence.

So I know "when a wider board is faster" for me